In Episode 126 of “The Trusted Advisor,” RSPA CEO Jim Roddy talks leadership with COCARD’s Dan Brattland. Among the topics discussed are the importance of being true to your distinct leadership style, the Three C’s of Leadership (staying cool, calm, and collected), how to delegate effectively, and what to do when delegation to an employee doesn’t work out.
“The Trusted Advisor,” powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association (RSPA), is an award-winning content series designed specifically for retail IT VARs and software providers. Our goal is to educate you on the topics of leadership, management, hiring, sales, and other small business best practices. For more insights, visit the RSPA blog at www.GoRSPA.org.
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Full episode transcript via Apple Podcasts:
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Roddy: Welcome to another episode of The Trusted Advisor Podcast and Video Series, powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
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Roddy: Our goal on the pod is to accelerate the success of today’s and tomorrow’s leaders in the retail IT industry.
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Roddy: I’m Jim Roddy back with you again.
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Roddy: Thank you so much for joining us.
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Roddy: So for the past several months, we’ve been talking with leaders about their individual leadership journeys and what they’ve learned along the way.
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Roddy: In this episode, we’re going to talk leadership with Dan Brattland of CoCard Marketing Group.
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Roddy: So CoCard has over 100 member resellers nationwide, generating more than $11 billion in annual volume.
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Roddy: Dan has over 20 years experience in the integrated payments and hospitality technology industry.
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Roddy: He’s a frequent speaker at industry events, including RSPO’s of RetailNOW and Inspire Leadership Conference, and he is now, as of today, a three-time Trusted Advisor guest.
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Roddy: You can catch him also in episode 72, Sales Strategies for VARs and ISVs, and the very popular episode 97 last year on Sales Messaging Best Practices.
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Roddy: Hey, Dan, welcome back to The Trusted Advisor.
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Brattland: Well, I’m really happy to be back.
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Brattland: Thanks for having me, Jim.
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Brattland: Great.
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Roddy: Always good to talk with you, and you know when you come back, that means we’re getting good feedback from our audience, and we do that every time you present.
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Roddy: So looking forward to diving in to leadership with you.
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Roddy: So first, I alluded to you’ve spoken at RetailNOW.
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Roddy: You were part of a breakout at RetailNOW 2024 standing room only, and it was about competing against those VC-backed, 800-number, impersonal POS providers.
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Roddy: And so one of the quotes you have in there, and so I’ve been quoting you a lot just so you know, you said meeting expectations isn’t good enough anymore, exceeding expectations isn’t good enough anymore, customer amazement is what we need to compete today.
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Roddy: So I guess I wanted to start there and have you maybe expand upon that, because that seems like an important lesson for leaders today in our channel.
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Roddy: Customer amazement is what we need to compete today.
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Roddy: Why do you say that?
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Brattland: Well, because today, if you’re not totally knocking the socks off of your customers, by simply doing stuff that’s unexpected, and it’s hard to compete.
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Brattland: In today’s marketplace, the customer is expecting you to answer the phone and get back to them right away.
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Brattland: They’re expecting you to deliver customer satisfaction.
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Brattland: That’s just expected.
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Brattland: The top companies that I know, when I look at the companies in CoCard, our top businesses, they do things that are sort of unexpected.
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Brattland: And when you do things that are unexpected to your customers, they remember it and they appreciate it.
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Brattland: Whether it be overnighting something at cost, or getting in your car and driving a printer over to a merchant and as an owner of the business on a weekend, that’s customer amazement and not charging for it.
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Brattland: You have to do certain things like that now in order to retain customers, go beyond what is expected.
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Roddy: Yes, and I’ll just say, so I agree with that.
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Roddy: And the data backs you up.
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Roddy: RSPA conducts customer health checkup merchant surveys for a lot of our VAR members.
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Roddy: We’ve seen the ones who have done those over the years, their scores and the customer satisfaction increases.
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Roddy: Then we have a question, is this beyond what you, above what you expected, what you expected or below what you expected?
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Roddy: And as the numbers go up, you would think the above, you know, my expectations, but actually that what I expected number continues to grow.
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Roddy: So again, there is data to back up.
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Roddy: That’s not just one VAR that has been cutting across definitely for several years.
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Roddy: So I want to learn more about your personal leadership journey first, because you’re such a highly acclaimed coach and advisor for industry.
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Roddy: But first, I just want to ask right off the bat, like for your best leadership advice.
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Roddy: So let’s say you have only two or three minutes to talk with a leader, right?
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Roddy: You get out of the elevator, you’re walking to the show floor, you’re in the airport walking to security.
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Roddy: What would be the two or three minute feedback you would give?
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Roddy: What advice would you give to a leader in our industry?
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Roddy: What would you tell them?
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Brattland: Well, I would tell that leader to be true to yourself.
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Brattland: Meaning, we had this discussion in our last, whether a successful salesperson, are they born or can they learn to be good in sales?
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Brattland: Natural born leaders are the same thing.
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Brattland: Is it nature versus nurture?
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Brattland: You have to really look at yourself in the mirror.
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Brattland: I would tell anyone who’s becoming into that leadership role and say to yourself, what type of leader are you?
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Brattland: You can’t fake it as a leader.
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Brattland: People will see that.
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Brattland: They’ll see right through you.
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Brattland: There’s two qualities that people look for in a leader, and that’s respect and trust.
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Brattland: So you have to be true to yourself.
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Brattland: You can’t fake being a motivator.
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Brattland: So look, whether you’re how you parent, how you coach, there’s different styles when it comes to leadership.
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Brattland: If you’re an introvert, maybe an intellect, a quiet, you can still be a very effective leader.
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Brattland: You don’t need to be that naturally born leader that in elementary school was leading the pack at the playground.
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Brattland: Yeah, those are natural leaders.
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Brattland: You can still be a very effective leader and by gaining the respect and trust of the people you lead.
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Brattland: And we’re going to hopefully talk about some of those characteristics when further in this discussion today.
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Brattland: I’d also add that lead people the way they want to be led.
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Brattland: So many of us like to be managers and leaders the way we like to be managed or the way we like to be led.
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Brattland: And I say the same thing in sales.
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Brattland: I call, we often say the golden rule in sales, which is sell unto others the way you want to be sold.
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Brattland: And many leaders have that same quality where they just became a leader through osmosis and they have never had really any formal training.
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Brattland: So what do you do?
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Brattland: You simply lean back and lead people the way you like to be led versus the top leaders I see in every field.
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Brattland: They’re able to adapt and lead their people based on the way they want to be led.
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Brattland: I call it the platinum rule.
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Brattland: Instead of leading the people the way you want to be led, the platinum rules lead people the way they want to be led.
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Brattland: So I may have in my group here various types of individuals.
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Brattland: Some are motivated by money.
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Brattland: Well, then I need to create ways to give them incentives to be motivated by money.
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Brattland: There are others that they’re not really motivated by money.
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Brattland: They’re motivated by other things.
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Brattland: So understanding who you’re leading and adapting your leadership styles to those individuals, I would say are some of the key ingredients to be an effective leader.
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Roddy: Yeah, to build on two points you mentioned, one is a great book is called The CEO Next Door, and it talks about like I guess back when there were magazines, but now TV, right?
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Roddy: There is a stereotypical leader in there, high charisma and dress to a tee, and fancy cufflinks and things of that nature.
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Roddy: That might work for some, but the CEO Next Door talks about the entire range.
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Roddy: So like you said, you have to be true to yourself, not to what people expect, and it sounds like, and I ask you this follow-up, if you need to follow a Platinum role, lead people the way they want to be led, you’ve got to really engage with them and be an excellent listener to really find out what that is.
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Roddy: You can’t just guess, here’s what I assume, or here’s what I believe, and so I guess, can you talk about that?
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Roddy: You and I talk about sales all the time, it’s important to listen, not just pitch.
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Roddy: Sounds like that translate perfectly from a leadership standpoint.
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Brattland: 100%, you have to take an active role and really be curious about the people you surround yourself with, and not only at work, but in their personal lives.
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Brattland: Talk about things outside of work, what’s important to them.
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Brattland: Is it family, is it athletics, is it sports?
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Brattland: Know what motivates them and get to know them and have a sincere curiosity.
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Brattland: Once people know that you care as a leader, and you have to truly care about them, they will respond.
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Brattland: I also would say that the top leaders that I know judge people on results.
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Brattland: I tend to look at myself more as a players coach.
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Brattland: There’s different types of coaching styles, and you Jim coming from the athletics would know this.
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Brattland: Some athletes respond to more of authoritative coach, disciplinary coach.
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Brattland: Some players respond to more of a players coach.
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Brattland: So, again, understanding what you are, I always look at within myself.
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Brattland: So the way you gain this trust and respect from the people you lead is to take 100% responsibility for everything that they do, meaning the top leaders I see, when they have somebody, maybe they didn’t do things right, or they made a mistake, instead of blaming that person, if you’re the manager or you’re the leader, you have to say to yourself, what did I do to cause this person to either act or do this way?
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Brattland: Did I not give them enough training, enough knowledge?
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Brattland: Did I not explain this to them properly?
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Brattland: What am I doing?
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Brattland: So looking within yourself.
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Brattland: I remember one of the great CEOs of our time, Jack Welsh from General Electric, who built that company.
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Brattland: In his book, there was a story of one of his top managers.
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Brattland: I think it would have made a $30 million mistake, cost the company $30 million.
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Brattland: That manager was quoted by saying he fully expected to be fired.
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Brattland: He went into Jack’s office and he was called in expecting to be fired.
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Brattland: They went over and Jack started talking about what we need to do.
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Brattland: He basically said, I’m surprised I’m not fired.
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Brattland: Jack said, well, why would I fire you?
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Brattland: We just spent $30 million to make sure that mistake never happens again.
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Brattland: Really looking within yourself and not putting blame on that person, and then getting to know them like you said, getting to know who they are and what motivates them is critical.
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Roddy: Yeah, you have to ask yourself, what am I doing if one of your direct reports acts a certain way?
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Roddy: What am I doing to cause this behavior?
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Roddy: That’s where you have to start over.
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Roddy: Things aren’t going well in your company.
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Roddy: You can’t say, it’s the economy, it’s the stupid customers, it’s whatever, whatever.
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Roddy: You have to say, what am I doing to cause this behavior?
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Roddy: Start there and then make some changes.
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Roddy: You talked about be true to yourself with your own leadership style.
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Roddy: Dan, how would you describe your leadership style?
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Roddy: Are there a few overarching words or phrases that represent what you’re striving for as a leader?
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Brattland: Well, there are.
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Brattland: I have certain things I always repeat, things like never complain, never explain.
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Brattland: When there’s a situation, forward thinking is a key ingredient of expected leaders.
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Brattland: Never looking at the situation and looking backwards, always trying to look forward.
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Brattland: When anyone comes to my office or whatever, I have a saying, you never complain, never explain.
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Brattland: Let’s look at the opportunity.
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Brattland: I also have something called the three Cs.
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Brattland: The most effective leaders I know are able to apply these three Cs, which are calm, cool and collected.
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Brattland: Because when fires are happening and things happen and travesties and there’s fires put out and problems and challenges, it’s up to the leader to be the one person in the room that has to stay calm, cool and collected.
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Brattland: The other thing I do as a leader, I often say things like when I explain to how to do something or what we should do, I might say, but I could be wrong, I often am.
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Brattland: What I find is that leaders are also very humble.
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Brattland: They’re not trying to be the smartest person in the room and they want the people around them to participate and be involved in those decision-making processes.
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Brattland: I find the door opens up when I make a statement about something, let’s say I’m on a board, I sit on a board, I might say, well, maybe we should think about this or perhaps we should do this.
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Brattland: However, I could be wrong, I often am.
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Brattland: What that does is it creates a non-defensive discussion.
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Brattland: I also have this word that I substitute in my brain whenever I feel frustrated, in order to stay calm, cool, and collected.
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Brattland: I substitute in my brain, Jim, the word frustration with the word fascination.
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Brattland: I think you’ve heard me say this on stage when I often talked about this.
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Brattland: I apply it to all parts of my life.
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Brattland: Whether it be my golf game, if I hit a bad shot, I used to get really frustrated, but now I’m just fascinated.
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Brattland: I’m fascinated how that ball could actually go 30-yard slice like that.
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Brattland: It’s simple phrases like you said, things that you might constantly say and do, and that rubs off on the people around you.
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Roddy: Yeah, I was going to say internally, I knew what your answer is going to be about fascinating and how I’m fascinated by that.
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Roddy: We talk about that internally.
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Roddy: As an RSPA leadership team, when you run into something, that’s really fascinating.
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Roddy: The one point that you brought up that I want to build on, you talked about the three Cs, cool, calm, and collected.
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Roddy: We have a document folks can’t see on YouTube.
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Roddy: We call it Characters Destiny.
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Roddy: If anybody wants to e-mail me or message me on social media, I’m more than happy to share with you.
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Roddy: It’s a list of 18 character traits.
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Roddy: One that you mentioned, you said how calm, cool, and collected.
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Roddy: We have it on here is temperance.
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Roddy: Self-control in communication as well as actions.
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Roddy: Self-discipline, rule your emotions, don’t raise your voice or display anger, stay detached from others’ disharmony, poise.
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Roddy: I know why I think that’s important.
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Roddy: Why do you list that as staying cool, calm, and collected?
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Roddy: Because a lot of people see, again, that stereotypical hard driver, pound the fish, scream, yell.
00:14:35.315 –> 00:14:38.155
Roddy: Can you talk about why do you think about cool, calm, and collected?
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Roddy: And again, temperance being important from a leadership standpoint.
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Brattland: I found that whenever there’s a reactive situation that is troublesome, it could be a devastating situation that occurs in your business every day, problems, challenges.
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Brattland: In order for your brain to open up and think about the opportunity, it’s hard to do that when you’re angry.
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Brattland: So the ability, and it’s a skill you have to learn, so that when anything happens, I have sort of a saying in my brain, in order to keep my brain open to, let’s look for solutions versus let’s not look for blame.
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Brattland: And being a forward thinker, which is critical in effective leadership, your brain has to be open to think about the opportunity.
00:15:32.755 –> 00:15:36.215
Brattland: So with every challenge, there is an opportunity.
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Brattland: And in order to do that, you can’t be frustrated or angry or reactive.
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Brattland: And the way I do that is when everything, anything happens, I try to train my brain to say things like, that’s good, this is good, this is good.
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Brattland: It could be the most amazing thing.
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Brattland: I mentioned in my seminars that I did at RSPA, a time when my company was hacked, you know, our biggest fear is to be hacked by, you know, some Russian group that got into all of our sites and all of our POS systems and they’re taking credit cards.
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Brattland: Oh my God, you know, so an ability to say, okay, this is good, this is good.
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Brattland: It’s not easy, Jim.
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Brattland: But what it does is allow, and in the end, I’m not going to tell you the whole story because we don’t have time here today.
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Brattland: But in the end, years later, I look back and I said, you know what, that was actually a good thing that happened.
00:16:27.275 –> 00:16:36.475
Brattland: And the ability to reduce that timeframe, because we’ve all had terrible things happen, that down the road, when we look back, we’re actually happy.
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Brattland: God, if that didn’t happen, we wouldn’t be doing what we are here today.
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Brattland: So knowing that there’s opportunity in every challenge allows you to be more calm, cool and collected when those things happen.
00:16:48.855 –> 00:16:56.095
Roddy: Yeah, I can say my personal best learning experiences as a leader, the great recession of 2008-2009.
00:16:56.095 –> 00:16:58.215
Roddy: I was a company president for only two years.
00:16:58.215 –> 00:17:03.155
Roddy: We just moved into a much bigger building based on the sales growth, and things went sideways.
00:17:03.235 –> 00:17:07.755
Roddy: Then in 2002, I was diagnosed with colon cancer.
00:17:07.755 –> 00:17:14.175
Roddy: So you compare those two things, like any news somebody’s given me now, knock on wood, they don’t get any news worse than that.
00:17:14.175 –> 00:17:17.255
Roddy: A lot of things that happened in the business world, no worse than that.
00:17:17.255 –> 00:17:22.135
Roddy: In fact, nothing I’ve come across in the past, whatever it is now, 16 years, no worse than that.
00:17:22.215 –> 00:17:25.615
Roddy: I guess that’s kind of the value of being an experienced leader.
00:17:25.615 –> 00:17:30.655
Roddy: You get to see how things seem really bad, but if you learn from them, it can make you stronger.
00:17:30.655 –> 00:17:37.475
Roddy: So the next time you run into something that’s bad and has everybody panicking, you go, well, it’s not going to sink the company, we’re going to solve it, we’re going to learn from it.
00:17:37.475 –> 00:17:42.455
Roddy: I guess is that how you see it as well, again, that the experience makes an important part.
00:17:42.455 –> 00:17:44.135
Brattland: Yes, you nailed it.
00:17:44.135 –> 00:17:44.695
Roddy: Great.
00:17:44.695 –> 00:17:52.215
Roddy: I’m going to take a quick pause here to let our listeners and viewers know about the RSPA, the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:17:52.215 –> 00:17:58.515
Roddy: RSPA is North America’s largest community of retail technology VARS, software providers, vendors, and distributors.
00:17:58.515 –> 00:18:04.075
Roddy: To accelerate your success through an RSPA membership, email membership at gorspa.org.
00:18:04.075 –> 00:18:09.635
Roddy: Also, we want to thank our sponsors who support the RSPA community and make this podcast and video series possible.
00:18:09.635 –> 00:18:17.615
Roddy: Our platinum sponsor is Bluestar, our gold sponsors are Epson, Heartland, ScanSource, and drum roll please, CoCard.
00:18:17.615 –> 00:18:25.515
Roddy: Finally, we want to make sure everybody knows, registration is now open for Inspire 2025, the Retail IT channel’s premier leadership conference.
00:18:25.515 –> 00:18:29.735
Roddy: RSPA Inspire is set for January 26th through 29th in Curacao.
00:18:29.735 –> 00:18:37.695
Roddy: For more information, visit gorspa.org/inspire so you can experience networking nirvana.
00:18:37.695 –> 00:18:41.115
Roddy: So you started going down the path of sharing a hacking story.
00:18:41.115 –> 00:18:43.835
Roddy: I do, I don’t know if you want to share that story or something else.
00:18:43.835 –> 00:18:45.595
Roddy: I’m really curious about learning.
00:18:45.595 –> 00:18:50.815
Roddy: Was there an experience you had early in your career that shaped you as a leader?
00:18:50.815 –> 00:18:55.395
Roddy: Like I mentioned a couple, like I said, being diagnosed with cancer, going through the great recession.
00:18:55.395 –> 00:19:03.135
Roddy: Can you talk about a learning experience or one story that stuck with you and shaped you as a leader?
00:19:03.135 –> 00:19:05.335
Brattland: Yeah.
00:19:05.335 –> 00:19:34.335
Brattland: I would say in the beginning, what helped shape me as a leader, when we first dive into business, and for many of us listening to this podcast now, we might be entrepreneurs, or we started the business, and the one thing I learned early on is that the most effective leaders are actually leaders that aren’t active and micro managing people.
00:19:34.615 –> 00:19:43.495
Brattland: We all have this sort of need as a leader sometimes when we start to, if it can’t be done right, I’ll do it myself.
00:19:43.495 –> 00:19:47.635
Brattland: And we have our hands on almost every part of the business.
00:19:47.635 –> 00:19:50.235
Brattland: And so I was that way when I first started.
00:19:50.235 –> 00:20:03.315
Brattland: Even when I was in sales doing most of the selling for my company, I always thought I had to do my own prospecting, my own appointment setting, because I didn’t think anyone could do that better than myself.
00:20:04.175 –> 00:20:06.515
Brattland: What I learned was, I thought I’d experiment.
00:20:06.515 –> 00:20:14.875
Brattland: I said, well, why don’t I just try hiring someone to make these phone calls and set appointments?
00:20:14.875 –> 00:20:21.855
Brattland: And I left, I hired, I brought somebody on, I told them what to say, and I didn’t even expect them to do well.
00:20:21.855 –> 00:20:24.735
Brattland: I came back, they had set four appointments for me.
00:20:24.735 –> 00:20:26.155
Brattland: That was a mind-blower.
00:20:26.155 –> 00:20:31.375
Brattland: Wait a minute, maybe there are other people that can do this, and maybe they can do it better than me.
00:20:32.055 –> 00:20:43.015
Brattland: And so that really helped me start understanding that the rule of delegation and being able to release yourself as a leader from all the various roles in an organization.
00:20:43.015 –> 00:20:55.695
Brattland: You know, I think it was Henry Ford, Jim, who in an interview I read that some reporter had come in to interview him about how he runs his factories and everything else, and he was sort of a master delegator.
00:20:55.695 –> 00:21:02.255
Brattland: He never really knew how to do much, but he hired the people around them that knew everything.
00:21:02.255 –> 00:21:09.935
Brattland: The reporter would say something like, well, how do you, you know, in the factory and assembly line, how do you get enough electricity to this source?
00:21:09.935 –> 00:21:13.215
Brattland: And he says, well, I don’t know, but I have somebody that will.
00:21:13.215 –> 00:21:17.835
Brattland: And he had a bunch of buttons on his desk back then, and he hit a button, and he goes, this person can tell you what this is.
00:21:17.835 –> 00:21:18.615
Brattland: Oh, okay.
00:21:18.615 –> 00:21:19.415
Roddy: Well, how do you do this?
00:21:19.415 –> 00:21:20.855
Brattland: And how do you do that?
00:21:20.855 –> 00:21:24.135
Brattland: I don’t know, but I have somebody that can tell you, and he hit a button.
00:21:24.135 –> 00:21:30.295
Brattland: So I think what I learned early on is the release of being, and so that active in the business.
00:21:30.295 –> 00:21:39.055
Brattland: And as entrepreneurs and as leaders, it’s one thing becoming successful by yourself and by your own actions.
00:21:39.055 –> 00:21:43.075
Brattland: What true success is, is becoming successful from other people.
00:21:43.075 –> 00:21:48.475
Brattland: And it’s so much easier when you’re not the most important person in your business.
00:21:48.475 –> 00:21:57.975
Brattland: And so I would say that’s the one thing I learned is trying to figure out how I am not the most important person in my business, and it allows me then to become a better leader.
00:21:57.975 –> 00:21:59.215
Roddy: Yeah, Donut Home Management.
00:21:59.215 –> 00:22:03.455
Roddy: You view yourself as nothing in the middle, but you’re only good if you surround yourself with it.
00:22:03.455 –> 00:22:08.295
Roddy: So you mentioned like when you first started delegating, you had somebody who then did the job great.
00:22:08.295 –> 00:22:17.295
Roddy: I know a lot of our members, especially a lot of the smaller resellers, they’re like, I’m the best salesperson, I’m the business owner, nobody can do it as well as me.
00:22:17.295 –> 00:22:20.775
Roddy: And then they go and hire somebody and say, yeah, they’re not doing it like I did.
00:22:20.775 –> 00:22:22.395
Roddy: And so they say this doesn’t work.
00:22:22.855 –> 00:22:25.935
Roddy: Can you talk about how do you overcome that?
00:22:25.935 –> 00:22:33.035
Roddy: Like maybe where you do bump into somebody who isn’t doing a good job, is it just simply, well, maybe I need to hire somebody differently, I need to train better.
00:22:33.035 –> 00:22:39.855
Roddy: Can you talk about how would you help a leader overcome that obstacle when they start delegating and it’s not working?
00:22:39.855 –> 00:22:44.875
Roddy: Do you have an experience of having that happen over your career and what did you do about it?
00:22:44.875 –> 00:22:46.235
Brattland: Yeah, well, that’s a great question.
00:22:46.235 –> 00:22:53.875
Brattland: You know, you look at those of us that are parents and have more than one child, you know, you can be the same parent, but all your kids are different.
00:22:54.055 –> 00:22:55.255
Brattland: They’re motivated differently.
00:22:55.255 –> 00:22:58.235
Brattland: Some will do, you know, mow the lawn exactly the way you want it done.
00:22:58.235 –> 00:23:00.335
Brattland: The other kid won’t, you know.
00:23:00.335 –> 00:23:03.175
Brattland: So everyone kind of reacts differently.
00:23:03.175 –> 00:23:14.195
Brattland: So when you’re building your people around you, and then there comes a point where you might say to yourself, well, this isn’t, I’ve worked with this person.
00:23:15.075 –> 00:23:16.655
Brattland: We’re not going anywhere.
00:23:16.655 –> 00:23:22.975
Brattland: You know, I always said the best leaders are those that never burn bridges, and they’re able to move people.
00:23:22.975 –> 00:23:29.335
Brattland: When they see a situation where this isn’t the right position for somebody, they’re able to navigate that.
00:23:29.335 –> 00:23:41.635
Brattland: And rather than try to put a round peg in a square hole, I mean, a square peg in a round hole, you have to really figure out how, I call it zero-based thinking.
00:23:41.635 –> 00:23:47.315
Brattland: Meaning, knowing what I know about this person now, would I hire this person again?
00:23:47.315 –> 00:23:51.475
Brattland: And you’re really doing them a disservice by keeping them in a position that isn’t working.
00:23:51.475 –> 00:23:55.495
Brattland: So in sales, oftentimes, it’s the 80-20 rule.
00:23:55.495 –> 00:24:06.535
Brattland: In all aspects, not just in 100 calls, you get 20 contacts of 20 contacts, you get two appointments and close it, but it also is in people.
00:24:06.535 –> 00:24:13.895
Brattland: It really takes 10 people to find two that is the right position for both sides.
00:24:13.895 –> 00:24:21.175
Brattland: And I have a, I’ve hired and maintained and trained literally hundreds of people over my career.
00:24:21.175 –> 00:24:33.135
Brattland: And I’m very happy to say I’ve never had a situation where we didn’t end the relationship and where they shake my hand or in a positive way.
00:24:33.135 –> 00:24:37.535
Brattland: The way you do that is by communicating with them throughout.
00:24:37.535 –> 00:24:44.095
Brattland: Once you’re training them and you’re working with them, you come to this conclusion, Jim, that this is not the right opportunity for them.
00:24:44.675 –> 00:24:47.615
Brattland: You have to figure out a way to get out of that situation.
00:24:47.615 –> 00:24:49.415
Brattland: And I found a simple method.
00:24:49.415 –> 00:24:51.075
Brattland: I call it the broken record method.
00:24:51.075 –> 00:25:04.735
Brattland: And also if you are somebody listening to this podcast, that you’re in a situation where you could be representing some company or product, how do you get out of this situation when you know it’s not the right situation?
00:25:04.735 –> 00:25:09.135
Brattland: And effective leaders are able to be upfront and honest with people.
00:25:09.135 –> 00:25:11.955
Brattland: The way I do it is I bring them into my office or conference room.
00:25:11.955 –> 00:25:13.575
Brattland: I like to be in a neutral location.
00:25:14.115 –> 00:25:16.455
Brattland: And again, this should be news to them.
00:25:16.455 –> 00:25:21.875
Brattland: But I simply say, you know, Jim, I’ve given this a lot of thought.
00:25:21.875 –> 00:25:27.915
Brattland: And I’ve come to the conclusion that this is not the right job for you.
00:25:27.915 –> 00:25:29.835
Brattland: And you’re not the right person for this job.
00:25:29.835 –> 00:25:33.995
Brattland: And I really think you’d be happier doing something else.
00:25:33.995 –> 00:25:35.655
Brattland: And I become overly generous.
00:25:35.655 –> 00:25:38.495
Brattland: I don’t go into all the reasons why they’re not doing things.
00:25:38.495 –> 00:25:39.315
Brattland: They’re not doing right.
00:25:39.315 –> 00:25:40.395
Brattland: This isn’t working out for you.
00:25:40.435 –> 00:25:41.535
Brattland: You’re not doing this thing.
00:25:41.535 –> 00:25:42.995
Brattland: And they might say, what about this?
00:25:42.995 –> 00:25:43.775
Brattland: So what about that?
00:25:43.775 –> 00:25:50.455
Brattland: And I’ll just say, you know, Jim, again, I’ve come to the conclusion that this is not the right opportunity for you.
00:25:50.455 –> 00:25:52.975
Brattland: And you’d really be happy you’re doing something else.
00:25:52.975 –> 00:26:01.195
Brattland: Or if you’re in an opportunity that how to get out of, and then eventually you would say the same thing, you know, this isn’t the right job for me.
00:26:01.195 –> 00:26:03.975
Brattland: I really think you’d be happier if you hired somebody else.
00:26:03.975 –> 00:26:07.535
Brattland: You want to leave every situation on a positive note.
00:26:07.535 –> 00:26:08.495
Brattland: I’ve never been sued.
00:26:08.935 –> 00:26:14.795
Brattland: I’ve never left somebody without again, shaking their hand and wishing them best and be overly generous.
00:26:14.815 –> 00:26:22.835
Brattland: Even if somebody didn’t do well with your organization, even if you led somebody and it costs you a lot of money, that’s on you.
00:26:23.175 –> 00:26:25.375
Brattland: You hired that person, you trained them.
00:26:25.375 –> 00:26:27.015
Brattland: If it’s not worked out, it’s on you.
00:26:27.015 –> 00:26:28.335
Brattland: So be overly generous.
00:26:28.335 –> 00:26:33.935
Brattland: I usually give them more than what they expect when it comes to, you know, severance or whatever.
00:26:33.935 –> 00:26:37.035
Brattland: So I don’t know if that’s really where you’re going with this, Jim.
00:26:37.035 –> 00:26:55.815
Brattland: But I think that’s, you know, once you’ve done everything you can and given the right tools, the training, you know, there has to be a point where you have to get people in the right position instead of trying to keep getting this person to be in the right position.
00:26:55.815 –> 00:26:56.375
Roddy: Yeah.
00:26:56.375 –> 00:26:57.015
Roddy: Yes.
00:26:57.015 –> 00:26:57.375
Roddy: Amen.
00:26:57.375 –> 00:27:00.695
Roddy: And so a few things to build on what you said, sever nice, right?
00:27:00.695 –> 00:27:06.095
Roddy: Always sever nice, no matter what, you don’t scream at somebody on the way out, you make sure you sever nice.
00:27:06.095 –> 00:27:16.695
Roddy: And it seems like the story that you told where you said, where you say, I have concluded, that’s at the end of a long, like you said, constant communication, as opposed to building up frustration.
00:27:16.695 –> 00:27:22.235
Roddy: I see too many managers do what I call Jack in the Box management.
00:27:22.235 –> 00:27:26.075
Roddy: Then boom, they pop out and go, I’m upset at these 10 things you have done.
00:27:26.075 –> 00:27:29.075
Roddy: And the person is like, geez, why didn’t you tell me after the first one?
00:27:29.075 –> 00:27:30.415
Roddy: That’s what it sounds like you’re talking about.
00:27:30.415 –> 00:27:36.615
Roddy: It’s frequently holding up the mirror and engaging in a conversation with a person and marching down the path.
00:27:36.615 –> 00:27:40.595
Roddy: If they don’t improve, you’re going on that path, or if they do improve, they’re going to know along the way.
00:27:40.595 –> 00:27:41.775
Roddy: That’s what it sounds like you’re talking about.
00:27:41.775 –> 00:27:47.975
Roddy: When you have somebody who’s falling below standard, get closer to them and then take whichever path the data shows you to go.
00:27:47.975 –> 00:27:49.735
Roddy: Am I understanding that correctly?
00:27:49.735 –> 00:27:50.855
Brattland: Yes.
00:27:52.815 –> 00:27:54.355
Brattland: I call it do it now.
00:27:54.355 –> 00:28:05.135
Brattland: Whenever I see somebody as doing something that I don’t think is productive, instead of me thinking about it, going home and losing sleep over it, I take care of it now.
00:28:05.755 –> 00:28:24.095
Brattland: If I hear someone on the phone, maybe my customer service department, react a certain way, let’s say to a merchant or say something that, instead of me sitting about it, well, I’m going to have to meet with this person tomorrow, and I get out of my chair, right when they hang up, hey, let’s talk about this.
00:28:24.095 –> 00:28:25.615
Brattland: Do it now, take action.
00:28:25.955 –> 00:28:28.535
Brattland: Whenever you see a situation, step in.
00:28:28.535 –> 00:28:37.275
Brattland: Now, if there’s other people around, I always say, I learned this from the one-minute manager, you reprimand in private.
00:28:37.275 –> 00:28:40.735
Brattland: When I say reprimand, I say, what did they do wrong so they don’t get dispensed?
00:28:40.735 –> 00:28:43.655
Brattland: I appraise in public.
00:28:43.655 –> 00:28:47.815
Brattland: But do it now, do it right away so you don’t have to go home thinking about it overnight.
00:28:47.815 –> 00:28:49.615
Brattland: Oh my God, I can’t believe this person did that.
00:28:49.615 –> 00:28:50.955
Brattland: What am I going to do?
00:28:50.955 –> 00:28:52.855
Brattland: Just do it, get in front of them.
00:28:53.555 –> 00:28:57.115
Roddy: Bad news never ages well.
00:28:57.115 –> 00:29:01.635
Roddy: We have time for just maybe one or two more questions, and I’m really curious your answer on this one.
00:29:02.295 –> 00:29:05.595
Roddy: You’re an accomplished leader and a very confident presenter.
00:29:05.595 –> 00:29:14.555
Roddy: Anytime I talk with anybody in the industry about the best speakers in our channel, if they’re mentioning one or two names or three names, your name is always coming up there.
00:29:14.555 –> 00:29:22.035
Roddy: But very confident presenter, but every leader has periods of doubt, especially early on in any venture.
00:29:22.535 –> 00:29:31.615
Roddy: Can you share with us, if you’re willing to, can you talk about a time when you had self-doubt and then talk about how you overcame that self-doubt?
00:29:33.315 –> 00:29:47.435
Brattland: Well, recently, I would say when the pandemic hit, I think a lot of us were doubting, especially if you’re in the hospitality business, what’s going to happen?
00:29:47.835 –> 00:29:50.255
Brattland: We’re doubting the future of our business.
00:29:53.135 –> 00:30:00.855
Brattland: I went back to those same principles where you have to really look at what business you’re in.
00:30:00.875 –> 00:30:03.655
Brattland: As a reseller, that’s the business I’m in.
00:30:03.655 –> 00:30:06.975
Brattland: I’m in the reseller business and I’m also in the payments business.
00:30:06.975 –> 00:30:10.555
Brattland: I’m not in the point of sale software business.
00:30:11.835 –> 00:30:21.975
Brattland: Having that doubt of restaurants closing down and they don’t want to talk about purchasing new POS systems or anything like that or payments, we’re in a panic situation.
00:30:23.075 –> 00:30:28.495
Brattland: We really had to shift gears and think about, okay, what is the opportunity?
00:30:28.495 –> 00:30:33.475
Brattland: Whenever that doubt happens, I always have to say, what is the opportunity here?
00:30:33.475 –> 00:30:34.755
Brattland: What is the opportunity?
00:30:34.915 –> 00:30:36.775
Brattland: Think about that.
00:30:36.775 –> 00:30:39.575
Brattland: Lo and behold, there was plenty of opportunity.
00:30:39.575 –> 00:31:10.535
Brattland: Jim, I found now with CoCard and some of our top offices, if you talk about our top 20% that do 80% of the volume on those 100 offices throughout the country, I would say over the last four or five, six years, they’ve succeeded more at a much rapid rate as a result of that pandemic because it opened the door to opportunity that they never would have done if there wasn’t a pandemic.
00:31:11.095 –> 00:31:18.655
Brattland: So just the idea of whenever there’s self-doubt to think to yourself, well, where is the opportunity will cause you to think about that?
00:31:18.655 –> 00:31:24.255
Brattland: So that’s one situation I can think of.
00:31:24.255 –> 00:31:24.675
Roddy: Got it.
00:31:24.675 –> 00:31:25.095
Roddy: No, thank you.
00:31:25.195 –> 00:31:27.735
Roddy: That gets back to the importance of temperance, right?
00:31:27.735 –> 00:31:37.415
Roddy: Not just in dealing with people, but in dealing with yourself because if you’re letting your mind wander and you’re just fretting and wringing your hands, you’re not going to be able to look for the opportunity.
00:31:37.415 –> 00:31:39.215
Roddy: You and I have listened to a lot of speakers.
00:31:39.335 –> 00:31:43.655
Roddy: Nobody said like the key is getting frustrated and then everything will fall into place, right?
00:31:44.055 –> 00:31:45.575
Roddy: That’s never a good thing.
00:31:45.575 –> 00:31:45.835
Roddy: All right.
00:31:45.835 –> 00:31:47.535
Roddy: My last question for you.
00:31:47.535 –> 00:31:51.375
Roddy: You mentioned earlier One Minute Manager, you mentioned Jack Welch.
00:31:51.375 –> 00:31:53.515
Roddy: There’s some leaders that you look up to.
00:31:53.515 –> 00:32:02.655
Roddy: I’m curious if you have any mentor or somebody who you work closely with, or somebody who heard speak or read a book, how did they help shape your leadership approach?
00:32:02.655 –> 00:32:06.095
Roddy: What did they do or say that’s had a lasting impact on you?
00:32:06.435 –> 00:32:14.075
Roddy: If you can talk about a mentor or a leader that you’ve emulated, it could be somebody early on, it could be somebody recent, somebody close, somebody far away.
00:32:15.655 –> 00:32:18.335
Brattland: Jim, I’ve learned that no one makes it alone.
00:32:19.915 –> 00:32:32.255
Brattland: I was, I guess, fortunate to have parents that raise me to be a critical thinker, a forward thinker, and a father, and we don’t choose our parents.
00:32:32.255 –> 00:32:33.395
Brattland: So I was fortunate there.
00:32:33.815 –> 00:32:43.335
Brattland: But once I got into my teenage years and my 20s, I found my first mentor was a gentleman by the name of Tom Hopkins.
00:32:44.475 –> 00:32:55.055
Brattland: I knew I wasn’t going to go in the normal path of some of my friends through college and go into certain fields, engineering or becoming a doctor or attorney or anything.
00:32:55.055 –> 00:33:10.215
Brattland: I knew that if I was going to achieve what I wanted to achieve, I had to become an entrepreneur and to become a successful entrepreneur, the first skill I had to master was how to master the art of selling and persuasion.
00:33:11.575 –> 00:33:14.295
Brattland: Tom Hopkins was my first mentor.
00:33:14.295 –> 00:33:16.235
Brattland: He wrote the book, How to Master the Art of Selling.
00:33:16.235 –> 00:33:26.635
Brattland: I learned from Tom Hopkins, the art of communication, how to ask questions in sales, how to close sales.
00:33:26.635 –> 00:33:30.035
Brattland: The definition of closing is helping people make decisions that are right for them.
00:33:30.415 –> 00:33:40.715
Brattland: So some serious skill-based, and I looked at sales as a profession, almost like a doctor, and I studied it.
00:33:40.715 –> 00:33:45.795
Brattland: Sales, Jim, is really the oldest profession we have.
00:33:45.795 –> 00:33:52.275
Brattland: Now, Jim, some might say there might be another profession that could be the oldest profession in the world.
00:33:53.355 –> 00:33:54.255
Roddy: That’s for a different podcast.
00:33:54.255 –> 00:33:56.835
Brattland: I would say that’s just the subsection of sales.
00:33:56.835 –> 00:33:57.095
Roddy: Yes.
00:33:57.275 –> 00:34:08.995
Brattland: Okay, so Tom Hopkins also taught me things like goal setting and how to set goals and how to deal with failure and rejection.
00:34:08.995 –> 00:34:12.475
Brattland: You know, I talk so much about the joy of failure.
00:34:12.855 –> 00:34:14.935
Brattland: I got most of that from Tom Hopkins.
00:34:14.935 –> 00:34:19.135
Brattland: The other mentor for me was a guy by the name of Brian Tracy.
00:34:19.135 –> 00:34:25.635
Brattland: Brian Tracy taught me how to think, like my father, you know, being a forward thinker.
00:34:25.715 –> 00:34:34.655
Brattland: But even more so, I learned the power of affirmations and how you can program your brain to become, you know, what you want to be.
00:34:34.655 –> 00:34:40.795
Brattland: You know, there are a couple of affirmations I love, which is, you know, things like, I like myself.
00:34:40.815 –> 00:34:41.895
Brattland: I like myself.
00:34:41.895 –> 00:34:42.535
Brattland: I like myself.
00:34:42.535 –> 00:34:43.715
Brattland: Or I’m the best.
00:34:43.715 –> 00:34:47.815
Brattland: I’m the best before every sales call, before every meeting, before I get up and talk to him.
00:34:47.815 –> 00:34:51.475
Brattland: I always give myself positive affirmations.
00:34:51.475 –> 00:34:54.115
Brattland: And another thing I might say is, today’s going to be a great day.
00:34:54.355 –> 00:34:56.575
Brattland: You know, you can do these things while you’re brushing your teeth.
00:34:56.575 –> 00:34:59.915
Brattland: I wouldn’t advise them to do them in public if I’m in a grocery store.
00:34:59.915 –> 00:35:00.815
Brattland: You know, I like myself.
00:35:00.815 –> 00:35:01.415
Brattland: I like myself.
00:35:01.415 –> 00:35:04.335
Brattland: But I learned some of those things from some of these speakers.
00:35:04.335 –> 00:35:08.955
Brattland: And I was fortunate enough in my first business, Jim, to travel and I promoted speakers.
00:35:08.955 –> 00:35:12.135
Brattland: Some of the greatest leaders of our time, some of the best coaches of our time.
00:35:12.135 –> 00:35:14.235
Brattland: I think of Lou Holtz.
00:35:14.235 –> 00:35:16.655
Brattland: One of my favorite mentors was Lou Holtz.
00:35:16.655 –> 00:35:19.095
Brattland: Pat Riley was another one and I got to know them.
00:35:19.095 –> 00:35:25.595
Brattland: But I would say the one person that’s not alive, you don’t have to have a living person to be a mentor.
00:35:25.595 –> 00:35:34.835
Brattland: They could be Benjamin Franklin or for me, it was an author by the name of James Allen, who wrote the book As A Man Thinketh.
00:35:34.835 –> 00:35:42.455
Brattland: That really hit home and I give that book to all young people who are just getting out in the profession.
00:35:42.455 –> 00:35:47.915
Brattland: I’ll say, if there’s any one book I would recommend, it would be As A Man Thinketh.
00:35:47.915 –> 00:35:51.115
Brattland: Because that teaches how you can control your thoughts.
00:35:51.735 –> 00:35:59.835
Brattland: Jim, I learned in this book that circumstances do not make the man, they reveal him.
00:36:00.055 –> 00:36:05.475
Brattland: So the ability to control your thoughts can control your circumstances.
00:36:05.475 –> 00:36:14.875
Brattland: So I would say those are some of the mentors, books, things that have really helped me throughout my career and my leadership.
00:36:14.875 –> 00:36:15.495
Roddy: Thank you for that.
00:36:15.555 –> 00:36:21.655
Roddy: A key point here is Brian Tracy, Tom Hopkins, Lou Holt, Pat Riley, they did not show up on your doorstep.
00:36:21.655 –> 00:36:24.155
Roddy: You had to go get that information.
00:36:24.175 –> 00:36:33.755
Roddy: That’s I guess I see a lot of leaders, they just go with what they know or what they feel, as opposed to saying, I can actually increase my knowledge and increase my skill.
00:36:33.755 –> 00:36:36.615
Roddy: So I’m stronger as a leader.
00:36:36.615 –> 00:36:43.235
Roddy: It seems like really that’s something you’ve invested serious time into doing that over your career and still do today, if I’m understanding that correctly.
00:36:43.235 –> 00:36:46.095
Brattland: I have, but it’s all been self-serving.
00:36:46.095 –> 00:36:56.095
Brattland: It’s interesting, I get up on the stage, and I talk, and most of the things I talk about even here today, these are not things that I came up with.
00:36:56.095 –> 00:37:14.835
Brattland: They’re all things that I sought out, and I knew that if I’m going to be an effective leader, if I’m going to be an effective parent, if I’m going to be effective coach, if I’m going to have friends that respect me, and are happy, and have good relationships, I’ve got to work on myself first.
00:37:14.835 –> 00:37:36.195
Brattland: Because it’s really hard to be an effective leader, Jim, if you walk in and turn on a light switch, if you don’t have balance in your life, if you’re one of these leaders that’s up all night, looking at your business and you don’t have that balance in your personal life, or if you have a situation where you’re not balanced and you can’t walk in, and all of a sudden be Mr.
00:37:36.195 –> 00:37:39.635
Brattland: Happy and turn that switch, because people will read right through that.
00:37:39.635 –> 00:37:48.875
Brattland: If you’re not sincere, if you’re not genuine, and if you’re not a happy person, it’s really hard to lead people, because you really can’t fake it.
00:37:48.875 –> 00:37:49.395
Roddy: Amen.
00:37:49.395 –> 00:37:49.915
Roddy: Well said.
00:37:49.915 –> 00:37:52.395
Roddy: Well, that does it for this episode of The Trusted Advisor.
00:37:52.395 –> 00:37:59.215
Roddy: If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to subscribe to the RSPA YouTube channel and The Trusted Advisor podcast so you never miss an episode.
00:37:59.215 –> 00:38:03.595
Roddy: Before we go, big thanks again to Dan Brattland for sharing his wisdom with us today.
00:38:03.595 –> 00:38:11.595
Roddy: Thanks also to RSPA Marketing Director Chris Arnold for his production work, Joseph McDade for our music, and last but not least, thanks so much to you for listening.
00:38:11.595 –> 00:38:18.495
Roddy: Our goal at the RSPA is to accelerate the success of our members in the retail technology ecosystem by providing knowledge and connections.
00:38:18.495 –> 00:38:22.395
Roddy: For more information, please visit our website at gorspa.org.
00:38:22.395 –> 00:38:25.775
Roddy: Thanks for listening and goodbye everybody.
