In Episode 119 of “The Trusted Advisor,” RSPA CEO Jim Roddy catches up with Blake Gillum, President of VAR/MSP/ISV Data Cash Register (DCR), and Thomas Greenman, President and Co-Owner of VAR Skurla’s POS Solutions. Gillum and Greeman were Trusted Advisor guests back in 2020 (Episode 12: VAR Leadership Transitions) to discuss their transition into company leadership roles. In this episode they talk about overcoming their #1 leadership challenge, what experience shaped them most as leaders, and the importance of focusing on both relationships and results.
“The Trusted Advisor,” powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association (RSPA), is an award-winning content series designed specifically for retail IT VARs and software providers. Our goal is to educate you on the topics of leadership, management, hiring, sales, and other small business best practices. For more insights, visit the RSPA blog at www.GoRSPA.org.
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Full episode transcript via Apple Podcasts:
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Jim Roddy: Welcome to another episode of The Trusted Advisor podcast and video series, powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
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Roddy: Our goal on the pod is to accelerate the success of today’s and tomorrow’s leaders in the retail IT industry.
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Roddy: I’m Jim Roddy back with you again.
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Roddy: Thank you so much for joining us.
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Roddy: Throughout the year, we’ve been talking with leaders about their leadership journeys and what they’ve learned along the way.
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Roddy: When we first talked with today’s two guests, it was back in March of 2020 in episode 12 about VAR leadership transitions.
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Roddy: So today, we’re catching up with them about four and a half years later for an update on their leadership path and to learn more from them.
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Roddy: Our first guest is Blake Gillum.
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Roddy: He’s the president of DCR, an RSPA member that’s a VAR managed services provider and software developer headquartered in Nashville.
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Roddy: Blake started as DCR’s director of marketing in 2010, before being named GM seven years ago and president in March of this year.
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Roddy: Blake is active in the RSPA as a member of the RSPA Marketing Committee, VAR Business Growth and Development Community and as an RSPA board member.
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Roddy: Blake, welcome back to The Trusted Advisor.
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Blake Gillum: Hey Jim, very good.
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Gillum: Happy to be here.
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Gillum: Glad to be back on the show.
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Roddy: Wonderful.
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Roddy: Just so everybody knows, we’re recording this the afternoon of when it was just announced that Blake was elected to a new three-year term on the RSPA board of directors.
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Roddy: Blake, congratulations.
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Gillum: Thank you.
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Gillum: I’m honored to have the support of the association, and I’m just really looking forward to continuing serving.
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Roddy: Excellent.
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Roddy: We’re looking forward to that as well.
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Roddy: Our second guest is also an RSPA reseller member, and also an RSPA board member, but he doesn’t compete with Blake because he’s about 4,000 miles away.
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Roddy: Thomas Greenman is the president and co-owner of Skurla’s POS Solutions in Anchorage, Alaska.
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Roddy: Thomas started as a service manager at Skurla’s in 2008, became sales manager in 2017, and was named president in January 2023, when then owner Lynn Skurla Perkins retired.
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Roddy: Again, just like Blake, he’s very active in the RSPA, not just as a board member, but he’s also on the marketing committee and the VAR business growth and development community.
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Roddy: Thomas, welcome back.
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Roddy: It’s always great to talk with you.
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Thomas Greenman: Thank you.
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Greenman: I’m honored to be back.
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Greenman: I love the podcast.
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Greenman: I love the show.
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Greenman: I love the RSPA, so the pleasure is all mine.
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Roddy: Well, thank you.
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Roddy: We’re looking forward to, as one author, I can remember who was, he talked about vacuuming people’s brains.
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Roddy: So I’m looking forward to vacuuming both of your brains today and sharing it with our audience.
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Roddy: So let’s catch up with you.
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Roddy: Blake, if you can go first, I’m hoping each of you can give our audience an overview of your organization today, like in terms of number of employees, the vertical markets you serve, the regions you serve, and then also talk about how your organization is different from when we talk back in 2020.
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Roddy: So Blake, if you can answer that first, please.
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Gillum: Absolutely.
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Gillum: So as you said, we’re a VAR MSP developer who were based out in Nashville, Tennessee, and we’ve been in business since 1963, or 1961, 63 years, very long time.
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Gillum: We predominantly serve the Southeast United States.
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Gillum: However, we can go anywhere.
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Gillum: So we follow our clients where they may go.
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Gillum: And predominantly, we serve the grocery, fuel, retail and restaurant verticals.
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Gillum: And we’ve got about 43 amazing team members who has helped keep us in business for these 63 years and allow us to provide the service and solutions that we provide today.
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Gillum: So if I got to look back to 2020, which I mean was arguably one of the craziest years I think I’ve ever seen, in addition to a global pandemic which rocked every industry.
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Gillum: But also, in particular for us, being based in Nashville, literally a month before the pandemic hit, we were struck by a tornado.
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Gillum: And it damaged both of our buildings.
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Gillum: And so it sent us remote in a matter of 12 hours.
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Gillum: By the time we got the call from the alarm company, that all of our doors had blown open.
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Gillum: All the sensors at once have gone on.
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Gillum: There’s a problem to the next morning, getting our server back online and getting there by set up remote.
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Gillum: But so what’s different now than back then is really, we have fully settled into this hybrid remote workspace, which we’ve always gone a little back and forth about, do we stay remote?
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Gillum: Do we bring everybody back in?
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Gillum: We have certain, I guess departments, revenue centers within our business such as field services, who they have to be in office to be able to do that.
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Gillum: But we’ve really settled in and decided, we are going to stay for those positions who can be remote, we’re going to keep them remote.
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Gillum: I was a naysayer.
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Gillum: I thought this is going to hurt the bottom line.
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Gillum: The P&L is going to show obviously, this is a big problem.
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Gillum: No way everyone’s going to be as productive.
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Gillum: I will admit when I’m wrong, I was proven very much wrong.
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Gillum: We have, again, an amazing team who if anything, seems to be happier kind of working in their own environment.
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Gillum: That’s one thing that’s changed.
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Gillum: Also, we’ve had to transition.
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Gillum: Our industry is changing more rapidly than ever.
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Gillum: It seems in these past four years, I don’t know if this was accelerated by COVID, things fall apart, they get rebuilt back together differently.
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Gillum: That we’ve had to speed up our transition from just being a value-added reseller.
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Gillum: So we’re investing more in developing some of our own solutions, figuring out how we can better integrate, write solutions that can integrate on to some of these, the softwares we have, the platforms that are being built, and also at the same time trying to not lose focus of what we do best, which is providing great professional services and first-class customer experience.
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Gillum: So really, what’s different?
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Gillum: A lot, but not much.
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Gillum: Again, we’re trying to stay very focused on growth like everybody else, but true to what we do well.
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Gillum: In this new environment, we’re all operating in.
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Roddy: Excellent.
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Roddy: Well, thank you for that.
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Roddy: It sounds like some planned changes and then some, like you said, with the tornado, you do in the COVID, like you do what you got to do when things are happening.
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Gillum: That’s true.
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Gillum: The good news is we were absolutely overdue for a remodel.
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Gillum: We were, everything was maroon and green and it needed a facelift.
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Gillum: Admittedly, when you walked in, we did not look like a tech company before the tornado.
00:07:07.215 –> 00:07:11.055
Gillum: So it was a forced remodel was probably needed.
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Roddy: Great.
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Roddy: Well, thank you for that.
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Roddy: Thomas, tell us about Skurla’s, talk to us how you serve today, and then how you’re different compared to four and a half years ago.
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Greenman: Sure.
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Greenman: So Skurla’s, we’ve been in business since 1976.
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Greenman: We’ve firmly been a family run business for almost all that time.
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Greenman: Nowadays, we’re around seven employees, which is what we were in the past.
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Greenman: Nowadays, my wife works with us, so we’re still a family run business.
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Greenman: We really target the retail and hospitality markets in Alaska.
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Greenman: So we pride ourselves on Alaskans serving Alaskans.
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Greenman: And some of our customers are the typical that you would kind of expect from the hospitality market.
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Greenman: You’ve got the restaurants and bars and that type of thing.
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Greenman: But we also have our rural customers, so I say rural Alaska, way out in the bush.
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Greenman: So the bush is places where you have to take a boat or a plane to get somewhere.
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Greenman: There’s not a lot of road networks to get to them.
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Greenman: And so we’re helping Alaskans out in those areas where they’re in a small village, 200, 300, maybe 100 people.
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Greenman: And so we’re bringing technology to them.
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Greenman: And in the old days, it used to be cash registers, and now it’s full-fledged point of sale systems with a lot of increasing technology.
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Greenman: But since I took over the company a couple of years ago, I’m the sales manager.
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Greenman: I wear a lot of hats.
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Greenman: I have to.
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Greenman: I’m like the hair club for men.
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Greenman: Not only the sales manager, but I’m also the president.
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Greenman: But we’ve shifted a lot of our ideals since we had this change in ownership of wanting to embrace more technology quite a bit quicker.
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Greenman: So instead of being reactionary to it, we want to embrace that change.
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Greenman: I feel like as a small ship, that’s our strength, that agility, in trying to harness that type of agility to move into these newer markets and newer technologies that we can bring into our customers.
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Greenman: I think with some of the bigger ships out there with smaller rudders, they have a challenge with that, that they are not as agile.
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Greenman: But we really want to be indispensable to our customers.
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Greenman: And so in the past, we kind of came into like, okay, we want to offer a few core products and really kind of master that.
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Greenman: But there’s kind of a fallacy in inside of that, in that we’re limiting what we do, we’re limiting the products that we’re bringing to our customers.
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Greenman: So we’ve kind of shifted gears and saying like, we’re going to bring on more stuff from a smaller operation, you know, seven people.
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Greenman: It can be a bit of a challenge, but we feel like the customer deserves that, they need the latest stuff, they need to have more options on the table than just like, okay, we do two products and asset.
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Greenman: So we’re pushing ourselves in a lot of different ways, we’re bringing AI into a lot of our marketing and social media stuff.
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Greenman: We’re really looking for AI and these newer technologies to really push into the actual point of sale and payments end of it as well.
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Greenman: So we’re looking at vendors that are doing that type of thing, like how can we leverage these types of things?
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Greenman: So yeah, we’re definitely futuristic in that regards nowadays.
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Roddy: It sounds like one of the changes you made, I’m not going to get the exact quote right, but Dan Brattland from CoCard was on one of the panels at RetailNOW, and he said to compete today, he said before you only had to have, I think he said, one pony in your stable, because I represent this software, he said, now I’ve got like six, and so that’s what it sounds like you’re doing is you have to present, it’s harder for you internally to manage all those different softwares, but you’re giving way more options to your merchants, if I’m understanding that correctly, Thomas.
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Greenman: Absolutely.
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Greenman: You hit the nail on the head.
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Greenman: Yeah, I will say though that nowadays, it seems like a lot of the softwares are very similar.
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Greenman: So it’s not like this software is so radically different, it’s going to blow somebody’s minds.
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Greenman: There’s a baseline that they’re all creeping towards.
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Greenman: It’s like the Apple and Android worlds.
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Greenman: They’re so similar.
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Greenman: They’re just minor differences.
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Greenman: So it really is a mentality change that we have to take on, of like, okay, it’s not that different.
00:11:49.855 –> 00:11:53.415
Greenman: We just have to understand those nuances and move on with it.
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Greenman: But yeah, you have to have more up there because our customers want more.
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Greenman: They’re not so cut and dry anymore.
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Greenman: It’s not a binary decision like, it’s this or that.
00:12:04.275 –> 00:12:06.975
Greenman: It’s like all these different factors come into play.
00:12:06.975 –> 00:12:10.635
Greenman: So you have to have something available for them.
00:12:10.635 –> 00:12:11.335
Roddy: Great.
00:12:11.335 –> 00:12:12.275
Roddy: Well, thank you both for that.
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Roddy: And so I mentioned at the outset of this podcast that we talked four and a half years ago, I went back and re-listened to that.
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Roddy: And just so you know, I’m not going to do what Tim Russert used to do when he hosted Meet the Press.
00:12:23.095 –> 00:12:26.735
Roddy: He’d be like, here’s a clip of you saying something and contradicting, I’m not going to do that.
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Roddy: But I did pull out some excerpts from that.
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Roddy: And so back in 2020, both of you made the case about systems and checklists and about their importance.
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Roddy: And so Blake, one of your quotes, as you said, without systems, it’s like having roads with no lines painted on them and no traffic signals.
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Roddy: So Blake, if you can build upon that and talk about how systems, how do they continue to play a role in increasing your effectiveness in a leader?
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Roddy: And is there a particular system that you want to talk about now that’s really helped you over the past four and a half years as a leader?
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Gillum: Absolutely.
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Gillum: So, you know, I stand by that statement.
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Gillum: I think systems, particularly when it comes to growth and, you know, expanding your reach and capacity are very, very important, of course.
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Gillum: And, you know, so I think there’s really at its core two essential systems that every business really has to have.
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Gillum: You’ve got to have your operational systems.
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Gillum: And then one, I think, you know, as you develop and you mature in your leadership, you start thinking about, wow, do I have decision-making systems, right?
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Gillum: So, you know, I recommend to everybody, if you don’t have it, no matter how big or small, you know, you’ve got to have your PSAs, your ERP and your remote management tools.
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Gillum: We live in a world now where, you know, those are essential to make sure, you know, from everything that’s being sold and quoted correctly, your purchasing is going, you know, you’re getting all that done smoothly, you’re billing correctly, your contracts and managed services and asset management are all being handled.
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Gillum: And, you know, ensuring also the proper legal paperwork and agreements are being signed, you know, and just basic overall operational efficiency and profitability, right?
00:14:07.735 –> 00:14:10.475
Gillum: And we’ve got that in spades over here.
00:14:10.475 –> 00:14:14.715
Gillum: You know, we really tried to invest in that and we spent a lot of time.
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Gillum: But over the years as I’ve transitioned, you know, from, you know, the role in 2017 and the marketing director role into now as the president role, you know, we’re bringing more leaders up.
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Gillum: And so you start thinking about, all right, we’re building this leadership team.
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Gillum: What system do we have for decision making?
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Gillum: Because, you know, that’s getting more important, particularly with the rapid change of pace in our industries, it’s more important than ever, right?
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Gillum: So, you know, we started to do was say, okay, so what kind of system can we use to make sure we’re prioritizing and investing the time and energy in the right things that drive our business to long term periods of growth and success, right?
00:14:55.775 –> 00:15:02.335
Gillum: And it’s real easy, particularly with all the change, to just look around and go, oh my gosh, there’s all these shiny things.
00:15:02.335 –> 00:15:03.635
Gillum: There’s all these revenue opportunities.
00:15:03.635 –> 00:15:06.315
Gillum: If I could do this and this and, oh, that looks great.
00:15:06.795 –> 00:15:09.215
Gillum: And you go in a thousand different directions.
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Gillum: So it’s, you know, we’ve kind of been utilizing and, you know, I spoke about it a little bit at RetailNOW.
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Gillum: I know Jim, you’ve spoken about it in various committee meetings and presentations and, you know, is we’ve been trying to utilize the flywheel concept from a decision-making standpoint in our organization.
00:15:27.415 –> 00:15:33.315
Gillum: And, you know, we could probably have a whole, you know, session today on the flywheel concept, right?
00:15:33.315 –> 00:15:43.755
Gillum: But, you know, just real briefly, it’s pretty much just a repeatable series of actions that are cyclical in nature that allow your business to do what it does best while gaining momentum, right?
00:15:43.755 –> 00:15:48.395
Gillum: And so what we do is we identified our five or six core concepts.
00:15:48.395 –> 00:15:55.615
Gillum: And, you know, it’s what has made us successful over the past 63 years and what we feel will continue to.
00:15:55.615 –> 00:16:05.595
Gillum: And so when our leadership team and myself, and it’s looking at, OK, what should we prioritize and invest our valuable time, energy and money in?
00:16:06.655 –> 00:16:12.075
Gillum: We take that idea and we compare it against the flywheel.
00:16:12.075 –> 00:16:23.855
Gillum: It’s kind of like a litmus test where it’s going to go, OK, does this thing put energy into that process or is it taking energy and diverting it away?
00:16:23.855 –> 00:16:35.095
Gillum: And if it diverts it away, then, you know, it’s likely not something we should do or someone has to have a very, very good explanation of why we need to add another thing into this flywheel.
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Gillum: But really that kind of system, I think, has helped us from our decision making process and really allowed us to kind of hone in and prioritize and stay focused on where we need to go to meet this rapidly changing needs of our customers and the industry.
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Gillum: So that I think is a key system that a lot of people overlook.
00:17:01.875 –> 00:17:10.495
Roddy: Yes, and I have to say I have on my phone because I took a picture of it at RetailNOW in your session, the flywheel that you shared on the screen there.
00:17:10.495 –> 00:17:17.195
Roddy: Can you talk about also from that standpoint, if anybody wants to read more on the flywheel, you can search on the RSPA website.
00:17:17.195 –> 00:17:21.555
Roddy: We have notes on that and it goes back to a Jim Collins, the author of Good to Great.
00:17:21.555 –> 00:17:26.695
Roddy: Can you talk about, does it help where it’s less opinion-based?
00:17:26.695 –> 00:17:38.055
Roddy: Blake wants to do this and Andy wants to do this, but you can go, the flywheel is going to take out as much as you can the opinions and have it be based on our principles and our best practices.
00:17:38.055 –> 00:17:48.035
Roddy: Is that one of the benefits of it that you don’t get in arm wrestling matches from a leadership team where it’s more based on the facts and something that landed on way prior to that?
00:17:48.035 –> 00:17:49.095
Roddy: Am I understanding that correctly?
00:17:49.795 –> 00:17:52.555
Gillum: I think we found that it’s very helpful that way.
00:17:52.555 –> 00:17:57.135
Gillum: It’s very helpful just bringing everyone back to center and focus.
00:17:57.295 –> 00:17:59.115
Gillum: It’s very easy.
00:17:59.115 –> 00:18:03.855
Gillum: Again, we are blessed with an amazing team and we have great leadership.
00:18:04.655 –> 00:18:07.455
Gillum: We’ve got a lot of fantastic ideas.
00:18:08.235 –> 00:18:14.235
Gillum: It’s a great way and we like as many ideas being thrown out there as possible.
00:18:14.235 –> 00:18:15.615
Gillum: If you got one, let’s listen to it.
00:18:16.495 –> 00:18:19.255
Gillum: It’s the and and give me more.
00:18:19.255 –> 00:18:20.555
Gillum: Give us more.
00:18:22.195 –> 00:18:54.875
Gillum: But to your point, yes, we have found that once we’ve got all these ideas, and people tend to be a little biased towards theirs and want to do the arm wrestling thing, it helps you bring it back and go, okay, does it fit into one of these and kind of clear out the things that are a little bit of noise and get to the real, I guess, ideas or products or solutions or processes that we can implement that are going to cause the right type of momentum for our organization.
00:18:54.875 –> 00:18:55.175
Gillum: Yes.
00:18:55.175 –> 00:18:57.695
Roddy: Every idea in a vacuum seems great.
00:18:57.695 –> 00:19:05.175
Roddy: But when you compare it with your flywheel and line it up with all your other priorities, then that’s when you have to be, you got to be realistic about it.
00:19:05.175 –> 00:19:06.075
Roddy: So, well, that’s great.
00:19:06.075 –> 00:19:11.055
Roddy: That’s a great decision-making system because a lot of people don’t have those or talk about those.
00:19:11.055 –> 00:19:16.435
Roddy: Thomas, can you talk about systems, the role that they play and help you as a leader?
00:19:16.435 –> 00:19:19.815
Roddy: And again, a particular system maybe has helped you.
00:19:19.815 –> 00:19:23.695
Greenman: So we’ve been on EOS, I think, for close to 10 years now.
00:19:23.695 –> 00:19:28.695
Roddy: And so EOS, just for those who don’t know, Entrepreneurial Operating System.
00:19:28.695 –> 00:19:32.035
Roddy: You can find that online, the book, Traction by Gino Wickham.
00:19:32.155 –> 00:19:37.635
Roddy: So okay, just want to make sure we don’t have people tripped up on acronyms or initialisms here.
00:19:37.635 –> 00:19:39.915
Roddy: So just want to explain EOS.
00:19:39.915 –> 00:19:42.955
Greenman: Yeah, it’s been very transformative for us.
00:19:42.955 –> 00:19:50.455
Greenman: You know, it kind of took us from, you know, where we were in the past, you know, we kind of had this framework of policies and procedures.
00:19:50.455 –> 00:19:53.575
Greenman: And you know, it was kind of the mentality, here’s what we’ve always done.
00:19:53.575 –> 00:19:56.635
Greenman: And we didn’t really kind of question what we did.
00:19:56.635 –> 00:20:10.275
Greenman: So this really kind of steered us more to organizing like a unified vision of like where we want to go and like how to get there and like what are those processes and procedures are that’s going to take us to that.
00:20:10.415 –> 00:20:19.095
Greenman: And not to get into too much in the weeds of EOS, but it was very transformative for us for a while.
00:20:19.095 –> 00:20:26.415
Greenman: But I think one of the roadblocks we kind of got stuck on was some of the processes and procedures for processes and procedures sake.
00:20:26.995 –> 00:20:40.475
Greenman: And it was kind of like this just roadblock that just wouldn’t allow us to move any forward and really get traction, which is the name of the book that EOS is kind of comes directly out of.
00:20:40.475 –> 00:20:45.215
Greenman: So we tried to really kind of figure out like what is stopping us.
00:20:45.435 –> 00:20:54.475
Greenman: And really what it was is we were to focus on the policies and procedures themselves, like going by the book literally.
00:20:54.475 –> 00:20:58.435
Greenman: And so what we decided to do was like, okay, this isn’t going to work.
00:20:58.435 –> 00:21:11.635
Greenman: Like, let’s take a step back, look at like what EOS really is and figure out like what works for us and what doesn’t and throw away what doesn’t and keep the rest.
00:21:11.635 –> 00:21:13.075
Greenman: And so we did that.
00:21:13.275 –> 00:21:29.035
Greenman: And that actually kind of got us past a big spot in our journey from being like a company who went from the old ways to new ways and then to something that is more unique to us and what we were trying to do.
00:21:30.435 –> 00:21:38.515
Greenman: And I think that’s something that we’re trying to really embrace more of, the system is not just a system.
00:21:38.515 –> 00:21:40.355
Greenman: It’s like it always needs to be worked on.
00:21:42.335 –> 00:21:44.595
Greenman: I’m not going to be happy with it ever.
00:21:46.235 –> 00:21:53.335
Greenman: We’ve also kind of struggled with some of our own internal softwares and some of the vendors that we work with.
00:21:53.335 –> 00:21:58.695
Greenman: And I kind of understand how to put it.
00:21:59.535 –> 00:22:05.395
Greenman: It’s like kind of going back to our old mentality of like, we only need a few things, like we just need this and this will work.
00:22:05.395 –> 00:22:15.195
Greenman: And we’re kind of coming to that realization across the board, not just externally with our customers, but internally that not one system is going to do everything you need.
00:22:15.195 –> 00:22:21.655
Greenman: And Swiss Army Knife is great in an emergency, like you need to use this, you need to use that.
00:22:21.655 –> 00:22:25.235
Greenman: But realistically, like you want the best tools available to you.
00:22:25.235 –> 00:22:30.975
Greenman: And sometimes the best tool is not the one that has the Swiss Army Knife.
00:22:30.975 –> 00:22:35.175
Greenman: So we’ve kind of got back into that, like what works for us, what doesn’t work.
00:22:35.395 –> 00:22:40.955
Greenman: And so it’s kind of like a Harley-Davidson or a muscle car that you’re working on.
00:22:40.955 –> 00:22:46.815
Greenman: It’s like you’re always trying to incorporate these new things into it, maybe a new carburetor or something like that.
00:22:46.815 –> 00:22:52.735
Greenman: But where we go to industry events, you know, we consume a lot of industry content and leadership content.
00:22:52.735 –> 00:22:55.935
Greenman: And it’s like, I’m always trying to push something more into the engine.
00:22:55.935 –> 00:22:59.935
Greenman: It’s like, what can I do to make it better?
00:22:59.935 –> 00:23:04.655
Greenman: I really feel like if the day I’m complacent and like everything’s fine, it’s gonna work okay.
00:23:04.775 –> 00:23:05.915
Greenman: I don’t need to do anything else.
00:23:05.915 –> 00:23:08.495
Roddy: This car’s not getting any better ever.
00:23:08.495 –> 00:23:09.115
Greenman: Right.
00:23:09.115 –> 00:23:12.115
Greenman: I feel like that’s the day I just need to turn the reins over to somebody else.
00:23:12.115 –> 00:23:17.795
Greenman: So, you know, EOS for us is like, there’s our version of EOS now.
00:23:17.795 –> 00:23:20.375
Greenman: Like, it’s our operating system.
00:23:20.375 –> 00:23:22.395
Greenman: Now, it’s not like the book.
00:23:22.395 –> 00:23:23.235
Greenman: It’s not stock.
00:23:23.235 –> 00:23:25.315
Greenman: You know, we’ve customized it.
00:23:25.315 –> 00:23:29.175
Roddy: I am so glad to hear you say that because that’s how I felt.
00:23:29.175 –> 00:23:35.855
Roddy: So like I was introduced to EOS after working for a company that had its own systems for almost 20 years.
00:23:35.855 –> 00:23:38.315
Roddy: And so some of the EOS stuff I was like, this is great.
00:23:38.315 –> 00:23:41.635
Roddy: And some other stuff I was like, this is a bit much.
00:23:41.635 –> 00:23:46.895
Roddy: I don’t see like human beings acting like this every week or every meeting or something like that.
00:23:46.895 –> 00:23:48.975
Roddy: It just seemed like it was a little bit much.
00:23:48.975 –> 00:23:59.195
Roddy: I don’t know if you’re willing to share or if you can talk about like, can you talk in particular about what anything that you threw out or is it just you do stuff less frequently to map into your business?
00:23:59.195 –> 00:24:01.595
Roddy: I’m curious if you’re able and willing to answer that question.
00:24:02.375 –> 00:24:02.635
Greenman: Yeah.
00:24:02.635 –> 00:24:12.535
Greenman: So the first thing that comes to mind is probably the biggest thing that we really got tackled or had to tackle was rocks.
00:24:12.535 –> 00:24:16.915
Greenman: So everybody’s got a rock for the quarter or multiple rocks.
00:24:17.135 –> 00:24:18.415
Greenman: In the beginning, we were like, okay.
00:24:18.415 –> 00:24:19.855
Roddy: If I could just pause you for one second.
00:24:19.855 –> 00:24:24.175
Roddy: For those who don’t know EOS, rocks are the biggest, most important things.
00:24:24.175 –> 00:24:29.375
Roddy: You put those into the bucket first and then you fit the smaller rocks there as opposed to the reverse.
00:24:29.375 –> 00:24:32.315
Roddy: If you do all the small stuff first, you’ll never get to the big things.
00:24:32.315 –> 00:24:34.575
Roddy: That’s what it means when they talk about rocks.
00:24:34.935 –> 00:24:37.635
Roddy: I’m your interpreter here for EOS.
00:24:37.855 –> 00:24:39.175
Roddy: Back to you, Thomas.
00:24:39.175 –> 00:24:41.235
Greenman: Thank you.
00:24:41.875 –> 00:24:49.835
Greenman: Everybody is supposed to have a rock in that process, and that’s something that they’re trying to move, they’re trying to get past.
00:24:50.175 –> 00:25:07.775
Greenman: In the beginning, we were looking at things in, essentially, I’ll save some time, things that, we were looking at things that we felt were big-picture ideas, but we were signing people to them, or signing rocks that people just had no direct control over.
00:25:07.775 –> 00:25:12.755
Greenman: For example, like, okay, well, we need to do these things with the customers, and we need to get the customers to do this.
00:25:13.235 –> 00:25:22.295
Greenman: The problem inherently with that is that, that’s not a rock that you have control over, that’s a rock that the customer has control over, or a vendor has control over.
00:25:22.295 –> 00:25:31.535
Greenman: Unless you can go to the customer and force them to do something, which I don’t know how well that works for anybody else, it doesn’t work well for us.
00:25:31.535 –> 00:25:34.675
Roddy: It works for a limited period of time.
00:25:34.675 –> 00:25:42.155
Roddy: As Thomas Barron, our order counter, said, if we change something, like, you’d have to deal with it for a little bit, but then eventually you would do whatever you want to do.
00:25:42.155 –> 00:25:45.275
Roddy: So yeah, you can’t control your customers.
00:25:45.275 –> 00:25:53.315
Greenman: So our employees were having these struggles, and the problem was that these rocks needed to be addressed, they needed to be handled.
00:25:53.835 –> 00:26:00.355
Greenman: But did they really be accomplished by one person or whatnot?
00:26:00.355 –> 00:26:06.275
Greenman: So what we stopped doing was, okay, it was more like a criteria.
00:26:06.275 –> 00:26:08.875
Greenman: It’s like, is this something that you have direct control over?
00:26:08.875 –> 00:26:12.495
Greenman: And if the answer was no, then it’s like, that’s not a rock that you’re going to have.
00:26:13.655 –> 00:26:18.395
Greenman: Let’s find something else that you have direct control over and let’s get that pushed aside.
00:26:18.395 –> 00:26:25.215
Greenman: Because what ended up happening is the rocks kept getting rolled over, like from one quarter to another to another to another.
00:26:25.215 –> 00:26:27.715
Greenman: And nothing really ended up happening.
00:26:27.715 –> 00:26:30.015
Greenman: It was just like, okay, you’ve got a rock and that’s it.
00:26:30.015 –> 00:26:32.555
Greenman: And like, are you on track or off track?
00:26:32.555 –> 00:26:37.115
Greenman: Yeah, that was kind of the report that you would get, you know, like whether you’re making progress with it or not.
00:26:37.115 –> 00:26:39.215
Greenman: And it was like, off track, off track, off track.
00:26:39.215 –> 00:26:45.815
Greenman: And it’s like, well, I spent all this time and energy chasing after this rock that you’ll never be able to do anything with.
00:26:45.815 –> 00:26:49.795
Greenman: It’s like, find something that you can do, like find the rock that you can push.
00:26:49.915 –> 00:26:52.355
Greenman: It’s like trying to move Mount Everest.
00:26:52.355 –> 00:26:53.775
Greenman: You’ll never be able to do that.
00:26:53.775 –> 00:26:58.635
Greenman: But the rock in your backyard that’s been sitting in there looking at you, it’s like, you can take care of that one.
00:26:58.635 –> 00:26:59.255
Roddy: Yes.
00:26:59.255 –> 00:27:00.975
Greenman: Take care of those things first.
00:27:00.975 –> 00:27:01.975
Roddy: Yes.
00:27:01.975 –> 00:27:02.455
Roddy: Well said.
00:27:02.455 –> 00:27:03.855
Roddy: Well, thank you both for those insights.
00:27:03.855 –> 00:27:06.775
Roddy: I want to ask you next about your leadership challenges.
00:27:06.775 –> 00:27:14.935
Roddy: But before we do that, I just want to pause for a second to let our listeners and viewers know about the RSPA, the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:27:14.935 –> 00:27:21.775
Roddy: The RSPA is North America’s largest community of retail technology VARs, software providers, vendors, and distributors.
00:27:21.775 –> 00:27:28.995
Roddy: Members benefit from RSPA White Glove Service, which is provided by the member services team of Peggy Fry, Nicole Green, and Ashley Nagy.
00:27:28.995 –> 00:27:40.195
Roddy: Instead of leaving you on your own to navigate our growing list of member companies and member benefits, Peggy, Nicole, and Ashley will make warm one-on-one introductions on your behalf to fellow members who can accelerate your success.
00:27:40.195 –> 00:27:43.335
Roddy: To learn more, email membership at gorspa.org.
00:27:44.555 –> 00:27:50.655
Roddy: Also, we want to say thanks to our sponsors who support the RSPA community and make this podcast and video series possible.
00:27:50.655 –> 00:27:52.695
Roddy: Our Platinum Sponsors, Blue Star.
00:27:52.695 –> 00:27:57.915
Roddy: Our Gold Sponsors are Cocard, Epson, Heartland, and ScanSource.
00:27:57.915 –> 00:28:03.895
Roddy: Finally, save the date for inspire 2025, the Retail IT Channel’s premier leadership conference.
00:28:03.895 –> 00:28:08.215
Roddy: RSPA inspire is set for January 26-29 in Curacao.
00:28:08.215 –> 00:28:19.575
Roddy: For more information, visit gorspa.org/inspire, so you too can experience networking nirvana and meet in-person Blake Gillum and Thomas Greenman.
00:28:21.975 –> 00:28:26.415
Roddy: So the people are just going to start signing up now, if they know they’ll be able to get autographs from you guys.
00:28:26.415 –> 00:28:30.075
Roddy: So let’s talk leadership challenges.
00:28:30.255 –> 00:28:36.035
Roddy: So first, I want to talk about your biggest leadership challenge back when we talked in 2020.
00:28:36.035 –> 00:28:47.735
Roddy: Thomas, if you want to take this one first, you said your biggest challenge was time, working on several different initiatives at the same time, and ensuring you have enough time to help your customers and your team.
00:28:47.735 –> 00:28:50.355
Roddy: Can you talk about how did you address that?
00:28:50.355 –> 00:28:54.595
Roddy: How much of a challenge is time management for you today?
00:28:54.595 –> 00:28:55.835
Greenman: Well, it was pretty easy.
00:28:55.835 –> 00:29:02.175
Greenman: I just invented time travel and it’s still a problem.
00:29:02.175 –> 00:29:15.595
Greenman: It’s still a challenge, but I feel like the older I get, the less time I still have available for things, especially as leader, but I feel like what works better for me now is my internal transmission, if you will.
00:29:15.595 –> 00:29:22.715
Greenman: I can shift from that personal to work with far greater ease than I used to do in the past.
00:29:22.715 –> 00:29:30.375
Greenman: It’s easy to get caught up in some of the emotional aspects of decision-making, and sometimes it would sit with me for a while.
00:29:30.375 –> 00:29:37.215
Greenman: I’m sure you probably had that where you’re just sitting at home thinking about something business-related and you just can’t get out of it.
00:29:38.215 –> 00:29:41.615
Greenman: If I’ve been thinking about business, I’ll sit in that gear for so long.
00:29:43.295 –> 00:29:48.415
Greenman: It’s hours into a weekend or an afternoon or late at night.
00:29:49.515 –> 00:29:50.935
Roddy: You’ve done nothing but fret.
00:29:50.935 –> 00:29:56.335
Roddy: You haven’t gotten any smarter, you haven’t gotten any more information, you’ve just been fretting.
00:29:56.335 –> 00:30:04.235
Greenman: Yeah, or it’s been the scenario game where you just keep tossing back, like, what if I did this, what if I did that?
00:30:06.455 –> 00:30:11.375
Greenman: I think I found it was easy to shift into business, but to come out of it, that was the challenge.
00:30:11.575 –> 00:30:18.395
Greenman: And ultimately, that’s the inefficiency, because you’re not making a decision, you’re just kind of stuck there.
00:30:18.395 –> 00:30:31.035
Greenman: But since 2020, I’ve gotten a lot more experience, I’ve gotten much more perspective on life, that life’s short, and there’s certainly an opportunity cost in that time.
00:30:31.035 –> 00:30:43.095
Greenman: And I know it sounds selfish, but I’ve found that if I put the same importance on my personal and family time as my work, it’s made it easier for me to shift between those two.
00:30:43.095 –> 00:30:50.395
Greenman: Instead of idling around about something I can’t change, I’m like, okay, I’ve looked both ways.
00:30:50.395 –> 00:30:52.635
Greenman: I think that’s a David Crockett quote.
00:30:52.635 –> 00:30:55.115
Greenman: Look both ways and then go ahead.
00:30:55.115 –> 00:30:56.055
Greenman: So I try to do that.
00:30:56.055 –> 00:31:01.555
Greenman: It’s like, okay, I’ve considered this, I’ve considered that, it’s time to move forward.
00:31:01.555 –> 00:31:05.695
Greenman: And then just kind of shift back into personal life.
00:31:05.695 –> 00:31:13.315
Greenman: And it’s made me more efficient because I’m not so afraid to think about business stuff at home, you know, and after hours.
00:31:14.495 –> 00:31:17.735
Greenman: So it’s not a bulletproof theory.
00:31:17.735 –> 00:31:19.095
Greenman: It certainly helped.
00:31:19.095 –> 00:31:20.455
Roddy: But it’s better.
00:31:20.835 –> 00:31:21.395
Greenman: It’s better.
00:31:21.395 –> 00:31:23.955
Greenman: And 60% of the time, it works every time.
00:31:23.955 –> 00:31:26.135
Roddy: Yeah.
00:31:26.135 –> 00:31:26.715
Roddy: Well, thank you for that.
00:31:26.715 –> 00:31:34.095
Roddy: Blake, you said your biggest leadership challenge back four and a half years ago and during your leadership transition, you said internal self-doubts.
00:31:34.095 –> 00:31:41.395
Roddy: You said becoming comfortable at the highest level of decision-making and realizing there’s not just one way to solve a problem.
00:31:41.395 –> 00:31:47.015
Roddy: So talk about, are you more comfortable today in your leadership role?
00:31:47.015 –> 00:31:47.935
Gillum: Absolutely.
00:31:47.935 –> 00:31:58.715
Gillum: And when I said that back in 2020, I was referring to when I took over the position of General Manager in 2017.
00:31:58.715 –> 00:32:07.715
Gillum: And you get handed managing our management team, setting direction, making sure there’s money in the bank.
00:32:08.615 –> 00:32:17.195
Gillum: And all of a sudden, it dawns on you, you go, wow, I’ve got a 56 year old company.
00:32:17.195 –> 00:32:22.875
Gillum: That now they’re like, hey, here, leave this thing.
00:32:22.875 –> 00:32:36.555
Gillum: And I think that any young leader in that position or any young leader period, one of the things we don’t like to talk about because we’ve told as leaders, you’ve got to be strong and you’ve got to be unwavering.
00:32:36.555 –> 00:32:38.315
Gillum: And so, and that’s important.
00:32:38.315 –> 00:32:49.055
Gillum: It’s important that the team know that you’re confident, you’re going with your, but as leaders, I feel like we should be able to discuss with each other something that I think is very natural and everybody has felt, right?
00:32:49.255 –> 00:33:09.195
Gillum: And if I’m a firm believer that if you go into a role where your decisions are very important and they impact a lot of people, I mean, I’ve got 43 lives and families that depend on the decisions we make to continue putting food on the table and continue providing for that.
00:33:09.195 –> 00:33:14.655
Gillum: If you don’t respect that, you may not be taking the role seriously enough.
00:33:14.655 –> 00:33:20.815
Gillum: And so I will say that yes, over time, that does become easier.
00:33:20.995 –> 00:33:27.555
Gillum: You start realizing that it’s like when you have a newborn baby, everything is going to hurt this thing.
00:33:27.955 –> 00:33:38.595
Gillum: In reality, I mean, they’re not fragile, they bounce and I don’t mean to drop them, but they’re not as delicate and fragile as you think.
00:33:38.595 –> 00:33:43.575
Gillum: And so the more decisions you make, you start becoming a little more comfortable.
00:33:43.575 –> 00:33:53.075
Gillum: And I think for any advice to any young new leader out there, is having a little bit of self-doubt.
00:33:53.075 –> 00:34:04.675
Gillum: Self-doubt is a word for it, but also where you’re not going to always know the answer, the right answer to every decision or problem you confront.
00:34:04.675 –> 00:34:22.515
Gillum: And so to be comfortable enough saying, you know what, I’ve gathered all the information I can, and I’m going to make this decision based, you know, the best decision I can, based off the information I have, and come to terms with it may be the right decision.
00:34:22.855 –> 00:34:32.615
Gillum: It may be a landmine you never knew you were about to step on, but it’s okay, because the only wrong decision is no decision at all, and say they’re not making it.
00:34:32.615 –> 00:34:43.355
Gillum: And so, you know, absolutely, and I said that then just because I do, I feel like it’s a very important thing that we as a, you know, as leaders really don’t talk about enough.
00:34:43.455 –> 00:34:46.895
Gillum: And I think everyone’s experienced it in one way, shape or form.
00:34:46.895 –> 00:35:01.275
Gillum: But I will say, you know, it’s like, you know, sailing, you weather enough storms, and, you know, you get enough, you know, you take enough lumps on the head, you start realizing, okay, you know, we’re gonna mess up, and it’s okay to mess up, you know?
00:35:01.475 –> 00:35:05.995
Gillum: It’s actually, you know, if you’re not messing up, it means you’re not trying anything new.
00:35:06.035 –> 00:35:19.495
Gillum: So, you know, take that, you know, don’t let that self doubt turn into inaction, and don’t let that inaction, you know, I guess paralyze you from doing the things that your company needs to grow.
00:35:19.495 –> 00:35:21.515
Gillum: Don’t be afraid to go out and stub your toe.
00:35:21.515 –> 00:35:30.375
Gillum: I’m not saying, you know, put all of, you know, go take all of your liquid assets and gamble them in the casino, because by God, we might double our money, right?
00:35:30.375 –> 00:35:37.175
Gillum: But I mean, make informed, calculated decisions and risks, and it’s okay to be wrong.
00:35:37.175 –> 00:35:38.855
Roddy: Yeah, you don’t want to have hubris, right?
00:35:38.855 –> 00:35:46.455
Roddy: Like anything I do is gonna be perfect, and I’m a genius, but you’ve got to make sure you try something, and then you measure along the way.
00:35:46.455 –> 00:35:59.395
Roddy: But before you jump, I had a mentor who told me like, everything you do is based on the people you meet, the content you consume, and the experiences that you have.
00:35:59.395 –> 00:36:02.975
Roddy: So if you want to get better, just do more of each of those three, right?
00:36:02.975 –> 00:36:09.695
Roddy: And consume more content, meet more people, and then just have more experiences, and it’s hard to accelerate the experience one.
00:36:10.115 –> 00:36:13.155
Roddy: But if you do enough of that, you’re going to get a way better perspective.
00:36:13.155 –> 00:36:22.775
Roddy: It doesn’t mean you’re going to be perfect, but you’re going to feel more confident in your decisions because you have way more, we talk about, I know it’s not right to say like a bag of tricks, but you have like a bag to pull from.
00:36:22.775 –> 00:36:24.335
Roddy: You’re like, oh, I’ve done this before.
00:36:24.335 –> 00:36:26.795
Roddy: We’re like the sailing analogy, I’ve never sailed.
00:36:26.795 –> 00:36:31.455
Roddy: No, I’ve been on a boat one time with Mark Olson from APG Cache Drawer, and he’s like, do you want to help with this?
00:36:31.455 –> 00:36:32.855
Roddy: And I’m like, I don’t know what I’m doing.
00:36:32.855 –> 00:36:34.595
Roddy: I don’t know my port for my starboard.
00:36:34.595 –> 00:36:37.315
Roddy: Like I am not going to help here whatsoever.
00:36:37.315 –> 00:36:40.635
Roddy: So if you build up in those areas, you’re going to feel better.
00:36:40.635 –> 00:36:45.975
Roddy: It’s not going to be perfect, but you’re going to be able to make a better decision and then adjust along the way.
00:36:45.975 –> 00:36:47.615
Roddy: So I’m glad you brought that up.
00:36:47.615 –> 00:36:49.075
Roddy: So thank you for that, Blake.
00:36:49.075 –> 00:36:52.275
Roddy: Blake, I want to talk a little bit more in the time that we have left.
00:36:52.275 –> 00:36:56.735
Roddy: Let’s get into some specific experiences that shaped you as a leader.
00:36:56.735 –> 00:36:59.035
Roddy: And then Thomas, I’ll ask you the same question.
00:36:59.035 –> 00:37:05.655
Roddy: Can you talk about like one learning experience or a story that’s really stuck with you and shaped you as a leader?
00:37:07.295 –> 00:37:15.735
Gillum: Yes, actually, this is probably going to be the opposite of what everybody will think, you know, is, again, we’re very, I’m a very people-oriented leader.
00:37:15.735 –> 00:37:18.575
Gillum: People are the thing that’s made us successful.
00:37:18.575 –> 00:37:20.475
Gillum: I’m also very results-oriented.
00:37:20.475 –> 00:37:23.275
Gillum: You know, I want us to get the results.
00:37:23.275 –> 00:37:35.255
Gillum: And for a long time, you know, when you start becoming a leader and you take these positions, you’ve got this thing, particularly if you’re just naturally people-oriented, you want to make everybody happy.
00:37:35.835 –> 00:37:45.535
Gillum: And so, as you’re making this decision-making process, you’re like, oh man, so I want to make sure I come up with something that appeals to everybody, right?
00:37:45.555 –> 00:37:53.595
Gillum: And I kind of learned a long time ago that you can’t make everyone happy.
00:37:53.595 –> 00:38:02.515
Gillum: And the story behind that was, you know, we were trying to come up with some new ideas to, I guess, build morale, thank the team.
00:38:02.635 –> 00:38:08.415
Gillum: And, you know, we do golf tournaments and bowling, and not everyone golfs, and not everyone bowls.
00:38:08.415 –> 00:38:14.335
Gillum: And, you know, there’s a thing that, you know, we just couldn’t find that thing that could bring the whole team together.
00:38:14.335 –> 00:38:15.795
Gillum: So I said, you know what?
00:38:15.795 –> 00:38:19.015
Gillum: I was at a show and someone had a money machine.
00:38:19.015 –> 00:38:21.455
Gillum: And I said, you know what’s a great idea?
00:38:21.455 –> 00:38:32.935
Gillum: Let’s bring a money machine into the office, because I am under the assumption that everyone is here as much as they love where they work and would obviously volunteer their time to work here for free.
00:38:32.935 –> 00:38:34.935
Gillum: They’re still here because of money, right?
00:38:34.935 –> 00:38:37.495
Gillum: So who couldn’t like money?
00:38:37.495 –> 00:38:39.475
Gillum: So we go get the machine.
00:38:39.475 –> 00:38:40.475
Gillum: We order this thing.
00:38:40.475 –> 00:38:41.335
Gillum: We go to the bank.
00:38:41.475 –> 00:38:43.195
Gillum: We get all this cash.
00:38:43.195 –> 00:38:44.875
Gillum: We’ve come up with this great idea.
00:38:44.875 –> 00:38:46.655
Gillum: We think, make the announcement.
00:38:46.655 –> 00:38:50.535
Gillum: Everybody comes in, you know, and we’re keeping this thing stocked.
00:38:50.535 –> 00:38:53.975
Gillum: And sure enough, we had two people.
00:38:53.975 –> 00:39:03.115
Gillum: And I’m not going to mention any names, but they just, one didn’t even participate and the other was like, well, this is just terrible.
00:39:03.315 –> 00:39:06.595
Gillum: I don’t know why we just, you should just give us this month.
00:39:06.595 –> 00:39:07.055
Roddy: Yeah.
00:39:07.495 –> 00:39:11.655
Gillum: I learned then, I was like, and most everybody was very, very happy, right?
00:39:11.655 –> 00:39:13.695
Gillum: Because what a fun thing to build, you know.
00:39:13.695 –> 00:39:14.115
Roddy: Sure.
00:39:14.175 –> 00:39:16.695
Gillum: We put people on teams too, so you had to work together.
00:39:16.695 –> 00:39:18.115
Gillum: And I mean, it was a fun thing.
00:39:18.115 –> 00:39:30.375
Gillum: And everyone, you know, at the end of the day, everyone who participated literally left with more money than they came in with, which, I mean, again, is ultimately all our, you know, our goals at our jobs, right?
00:39:30.375 –> 00:39:40.955
Gillum: And so I learned that day, though, and I said, wow, I really thought this was the thing that would check all the boxes, and everybody was going to be happy.
00:39:40.955 –> 00:39:51.775
Gillum: And so, you know, I think, again, going back to, you know, when you are making these decisions, you know, don’t get hung up on trying to make sure everyone is happy.
00:39:52.035 –> 00:39:56.695
Gillum: Make sure it keeps driving, you know, your business in the direction it needs to.
00:39:56.695 –> 00:39:57.955
Gillum: Keeps building up the momentum.
00:39:57.955 –> 00:40:02.735
Gillum: Don’t do anything to purposely, you know, hurt somebody.
00:40:02.735 –> 00:40:14.335
Gillum: But if you’re waiting or expecting as a leader to make a decision that everyone will agree with and be happy with, you simply won’t get it.
00:40:14.335 –> 00:40:26.335
Gillum: And that was kind of, you know, one thing that helped, particularly when you are a people-focused leader, that was a good grounding for me to go, okay, I spend all this time and energy.
00:40:26.335 –> 00:40:30.755
Gillum: And like Thomas was saying, you know, this is time you could be here at home, you’re with your family.
00:40:30.755 –> 00:40:38.395
Gillum: But here I am, I’m thinking about, you know, how is this, you know, this decision going to impact this, this, this?
00:40:38.395 –> 00:40:41.215
Gillum: And, you know, it doesn’t have to be that complex.
00:40:41.215 –> 00:40:42.375
Roddy: Yes.
00:40:42.495 –> 00:40:48.535
Roddy: And realizing this thing is going to be great for this percent of my, you know, folks or this percent of my customers.
00:40:48.675 –> 00:40:51.675
Roddy: And then this other thing is going to, because it’s not going to be all of them.
00:40:51.675 –> 00:40:53.755
Roddy: So you have to do some sort of combination.
00:40:53.755 –> 00:40:56.495
Roddy: It’s funny to bring it up, because here we are after Retail Now.
00:40:56.495 –> 00:40:57.915
Roddy: We get the post-event survey.
00:40:57.915 –> 00:41:01.335
Roddy: We had like 150 something members participate.
00:41:01.335 –> 00:41:05.855
Roddy: One thing we changed a few years ago is we moved the welcome reception onto the show floor.
00:41:05.855 –> 00:41:08.435
Roddy: So it’s like the first Look Expo reception.
00:41:08.435 –> 00:41:10.295
Roddy: And you survey people.
00:41:10.295 –> 00:41:15.275
Roddy: Every year we get some people who say the first Look welcome reception is so great.
00:41:15.275 –> 00:41:16.555
Roddy: Don’t ever change that.
00:41:16.555 –> 00:41:22.975
Roddy: And then you get some people who are like, can you please go back to the normal welcome reception and not have it on the show floor?
00:41:22.975 –> 00:41:25.155
Roddy: Like, you have two things that are completely opposite.
00:41:25.155 –> 00:41:29.495
Roddy: You just have to go and explain to the one why you made your decision and why you didn’t.
00:41:29.495 –> 00:41:30.855
Roddy: So I love that story, Blake.
00:41:30.855 –> 00:41:31.515
Roddy: Thank you, Thomas.
00:41:31.515 –> 00:41:37.035
Roddy: What’s an experience or one story that stuck with you and shaped you as a leader?
00:41:37.035 –> 00:41:39.375
Greenman: Well, I’ve got kind of two.
00:41:39.375 –> 00:41:40.195
Greenman: I’ll make them quick.
00:41:40.435 –> 00:41:51.135
Greenman: I would say probably the first thing that comes to mind is my first RSPA event, which was in Vegas in 2010.
00:41:51.135 –> 00:41:52.355
Greenman: So I attended a class.
00:41:52.355 –> 00:41:55.875
Greenman: It was a service class and it was put on Bob Bauer.
00:41:55.875 –> 00:42:02.315
Greenman: And so Bob’s a, he’s a bigger bar, way bigger than us.
00:42:02.315 –> 00:42:03.175
Roddy: But he put on a service.
00:42:03.175 –> 00:42:04.875
Roddy: BMC based out of Michigan, yep.
00:42:04.875 –> 00:42:06.375
Greenman: Yeah.
00:42:06.375 –> 00:42:09.335
Greenman: He put on his class, I think it was for at least two days.
00:42:09.335 –> 00:42:20.115
Greenman: And so I’m in Vegas for the first time in my life and I’m holed up in this class and Bob’s, yeah, he’s given me the keys to the kingdom on everything related to service.
00:42:20.115 –> 00:42:22.295
Greenman: I mean, it’s not just a PowerPoint presentation.
00:42:22.295 –> 00:42:26.975
Greenman: I mean, he’s diving into everything, the who and the what and the why.
00:42:26.975 –> 00:42:34.335
Greenman: And I walked out of that class with so much knowledge and understanding, but like files and spreadsheets and just everything.
00:42:34.335 –> 00:42:36.335
Greenman: And I was like, this is great.
00:42:36.335 –> 00:42:37.955
Greenman: I can’t wait to take this back to the team.
00:42:37.955 –> 00:42:40.975
Greenman: But later on I was like, well, why did he do this?
00:42:40.975 –> 00:42:42.715
Greenman: I’m like, why would you, why would you do this?
00:42:42.875 –> 00:42:46.215
Greenman: And I don’t think he ever gave me a textbook answer.
00:42:46.215 –> 00:42:52.555
Greenman: Like I could back in the box kind of quote, but I mean, what he basically said, you know, he wanted to help.
00:42:52.555 –> 00:42:53.615
Greenman: I was like, wow.
00:42:53.615 –> 00:42:56.035
Greenman: And so, I mean, it helped out a lot.
00:42:56.035 –> 00:43:04.635
Greenman: And so, I found the RSPA community is having so many people that wanted to give help without really thought of getting paid.
00:43:04.635 –> 00:43:10.655
Greenman: And so it was kind of this further reinforced my life of that servant mentality.
00:43:11.295 –> 00:43:18.695
Greenman: But I think the counterpart to that was the first time I became a father, which was actually in 2010.
00:43:18.695 –> 00:43:27.955
Greenman: And to me, that was a really eye-opening experience that kind of like Blake was talking about with his team, you know, that you have all this bearing in their future.
00:43:27.955 –> 00:43:29.895
Greenman: You’re taking care of all these people.
00:43:29.895 –> 00:43:31.255
Greenman: In my case, it was just my kids.
00:43:31.255 –> 00:43:35.715
Greenman: But it changed the focus from more of me to we.
00:43:36.755 –> 00:43:47.295
Greenman: And it really changed everything in my life as far as like, like I need to mold these people, I need to help them out.
00:43:47.295 –> 00:43:54.635
Greenman: And it was not necessarily me telling somebody what to do, but like being shoulder to shoulder with them and looking at the problem together.
00:43:54.635 –> 00:43:57.315
Greenman: It’s like, okay, how can we accomplish that?
00:43:57.315 –> 00:44:04.415
Greenman: And I feel like nowadays that’s directly translated into the business because I’m that father figure.
00:44:04.695 –> 00:44:07.915
Greenman: I’m not going to say I’m the oldest person in the office, that’s Jesse.
00:44:07.915 –> 00:44:09.815
Greenman: I’m very clear about that.
00:44:10.915 –> 00:44:13.695
Greenman: But yeah, I’m definitely that dad.
00:44:13.695 –> 00:44:15.515
Greenman: I’m the fun dad, though.
00:44:16.095 –> 00:44:25.295
Greenman: But I want to be that person that’s their cheerleader, that’s got their back, that’s helping them succeed.
00:44:25.295 –> 00:44:27.155
Greenman: And it extends beyond the business, too.
00:44:27.275 –> 00:44:29.615
Greenman: I really take an interest in their personal life.
00:44:29.615 –> 00:44:30.735
Greenman: I want to help them out in that.
00:44:31.775 –> 00:44:35.515
Greenman: We’ve got a gentleman in our staff that he blows glass.
00:44:35.515 –> 00:44:39.555
Greenman: And so he was trying to do something for a magazine.
00:44:39.555 –> 00:44:42.155
Greenman: And he was like, would you take some pictures for me?
00:44:42.155 –> 00:44:45.315
Greenman: I was like, well, I was like, I love to do that.
00:44:45.315 –> 00:44:51.155
Greenman: And so those pictures ended up on the front page of this industry magazine for him.
00:44:51.155 –> 00:44:56.235
Greenman: So it really kind of did some really great publicity for him.
00:44:56.235 –> 00:44:59.275
Greenman: But I just enjoyed being able to help him out.
00:44:59.455 –> 00:45:10.595
Greenman: So the servant mentality and being really caring about your people and your staff and your customers, how can you help them?
00:45:11.595 –> 00:45:14.395
Greenman: That’s some of the biggest lessons that I’ve learned.
00:45:14.395 –> 00:45:20.095
Roddy: Yeah, I remember I went to a first internal management class back when I was at Jamison Publishing.
00:45:20.095 –> 00:45:33.435
Roddy: The owner put in all caps on the marker board, actually care because he’s like, we’re going to teach all these management tricks and techniques, but they don’t mean anything if you don’t actually care about the people that you’re managing, that you’re tasked to lead.
00:45:33.435 –> 00:45:35.215
Roddy: Step one, actually care.
00:45:35.435 –> 00:45:37.535
Roddy: That’s always been burned into my brain.
00:45:37.915 –> 00:45:42.795
Roddy: We only have a couple of minutes left, and so I guess I want to follow along and have that be our final question.
00:45:42.795 –> 00:45:48.595
Roddy: Can you talk about a mentor that you look up to or help shape you as a leader?
00:45:48.595 –> 00:45:53.295
Roddy: What did they say or what did they teach you that’s had a lasting impact on you?
00:45:53.615 –> 00:45:58.215
Roddy: Thomas and then Blake, talk about a mentor and what they did.
00:45:58.635 –> 00:46:04.335
Greenman: The first person that I always think about is my former boss, Lynn Skurla Perkins.
00:46:04.335 –> 00:46:05.935
Greenman: She helped shaped a lot of my approach.
00:46:05.935 –> 00:46:17.775
Greenman: She was always so open with her struggles, not just from a business perspective, but her personal life, and she really wanted to pass those lessons on the things that she learned.
00:46:18.815 –> 00:46:31.855
Greenman: Her approach wasn’t like, you just need to do this, but it was more of an imploring method of helping make me understand, please consider doing it this way, that it really showed that she cared.
00:46:31.855 –> 00:46:33.995
Greenman: Beyond that, she was always learning.
00:46:33.995 –> 00:46:35.795
Greenman: Her knowledge was pretty intimidating.
00:46:37.055 –> 00:46:38.995
Greenman: She’s small, but she’s really intimidating.
00:46:38.995 –> 00:46:41.335
Greenman: She knows a lot.
00:46:41.335 –> 00:46:48.735
Greenman: But she was never afraid to ask somebody for something or to ask questions, because she didn’t know something.
00:46:49.235 –> 00:46:56.335
Greenman: I found that’s part of her strength that I find hard to find in myself, that power of asking for help.
00:46:56.335 –> 00:47:07.015
Greenman: But on the flip side of that, she was so willing to give her time to listen to you, to really listen and give you some advice and share her experiences.
00:47:08.475 –> 00:47:09.375
Greenman: I love her for that.
00:47:09.875 –> 00:47:12.755
Greenman: She’s such a wonderful person.
00:47:12.755 –> 00:47:17.755
Greenman: Of all the people in my life, she had the biggest influence, for sure.
00:47:17.755 –> 00:47:18.415
Roddy: A great example.
00:47:18.415 –> 00:47:22.095
Roddy: I don’t know her as well as you do, but I worked with her on the RSPA board for years.
00:47:22.095 –> 00:47:34.535
Roddy: She’s a great example of somebody who actually cares about her people, genuinely goes above and beyond, and really their life she feels is in their hands, and she’s very meaningful with that.
00:47:34.535 –> 00:47:34.875
Greenman: Yeah.
00:47:34.875 –> 00:47:35.855
Greenman: She changed mine.
00:47:35.855 –> 00:47:38.215
Greenman: She changed mine a lot.
00:47:38.215 –> 00:47:38.575
Roddy: Excellent.
00:47:38.575 –> 00:47:41.495
Roddy: Blake, can you talk about a mentor and the impact they had on you?
00:47:42.755 –> 00:47:43.815
Gillum: Absolutely.
00:47:43.815 –> 00:47:52.975
Gillum: I’ve got to say, I’ve had a few like Thomas, but it’s really my father and Cody and Steve Blackwell.
00:47:53.735 –> 00:47:58.335
Gillum: My father has, of course, taught me a lot over the years.
00:47:58.335 –> 00:48:09.335
Gillum: He was involved in corporate America and had leadership roles there, so always tried to instill as many of these lessons growing up as he possibly could, and at any chance he got.
00:48:10.995 –> 00:48:14.035
Gillum: Whether you wanted to hear it or not, he was going to let you know.
00:48:14.035 –> 00:48:25.015
Gillum: But Cody and Steve Blackwell, who are the owners of DCR, and who helped mentor me to the role that I’m in now.
00:48:25.015 –> 00:48:33.475
Gillum: There’s one thing my father and Cody and Steve always focused on, which was it’s about relationships and results.
00:48:33.475 –> 00:48:37.215
Gillum: Those two things will make you successful in business.
00:48:38.715 –> 00:48:43.995
Gillum: That relationship is with your clients, your customers, focusing on that.
00:48:43.995 –> 00:48:46.715
Gillum: Focus on the relationship you have with your team.
00:48:47.755 –> 00:48:54.255
Gillum: Then if you focus on those two things, those solid relationships, you’ll get the results you want.
00:48:56.695 –> 00:49:08.035
Gillum: Really, that set me up to the philosophy I have today, which is that people-centric, relationship-centric, leadership.
00:49:08.735 –> 00:49:24.615
Gillum: All too often, I think we fall into the trap of we try to decide where we’re going as an organization, and we try to put all, then we say, okay, well, what people do we need on the bus to get to where we want to go?
00:49:24.615 –> 00:49:41.375
Gillum: When if you focus on the relationships and the people, and you get the right people on the bus first, now all of a sudden, particularly in times of change, which we’re all in right now, rapid change, now we can quickly decide, where do we go?
00:49:41.375 –> 00:49:42.715
Gillum: Where do we need to go?
00:49:42.715 –> 00:49:48.875
Gillum: Where we can decide where we want to go, and go there now, as opposed to saying, okay, we need to go over there.
00:49:48.875 –> 00:49:58.515
Gillum: Now I need to fill up 30 seats on this bus with the right people, which if anyone’s been trying to hire lately, it’s very, very challenging, at least.
00:49:58.515 –> 00:50:00.795
Gillum: I’ve found it challenging.
00:50:00.795 –> 00:50:08.395
Gillum: But that’s really been, they’ve helped shape kind of my guiding philosophies as a leader.
00:50:09.855 –> 00:50:27.555
Gillum: And it was from, I’ll admit, we probably had decisions we could have made to have made more money as a company, be more efficient that we chose to instead invest in our people, or a better relationship with the clients.
00:50:27.555 –> 00:50:32.895
Gillum: And we don’t have public shareholders that we have to answer to, so we do have that luxury.
00:50:32.895 –> 00:50:38.815
Gillum: But again, they kind of instilled in me, it’s about relationships and results.
00:50:38.815 –> 00:50:46.635
Gillum: And if you focus on those two things, you can cycle any product in and out, and you can be successful.
00:50:46.635 –> 00:50:47.915
Roddy: And this will make you feel good.
00:50:47.915 –> 00:50:50.555
Roddy: I’m not sure if you were in this breakout session at retail now.
00:50:50.555 –> 00:51:02.615
Roddy: I know Thomas was because Thomas was on the panel, but Andy Dickinson from DCR, somebody asked the question when you’re choosing a software provider, what’s more important, the features or the people?
00:51:02.615 –> 00:51:13.675
Roddy: And he said, the people, because I don’t know exactly what features I’m going to need in five to 10 years, but it’s going to be those people who help me get the right thing that I need for my business.
00:51:13.675 –> 00:51:20.135
Roddy: So it sounds like Blake, it’s not just, that message isn’t just sinking in with you from Cody and Steve.
00:51:20.135 –> 00:51:23.995
Roddy: It seems like it’s permeated throughout your organization, if I’m understanding that correctly.
00:51:23.995 –> 00:51:24.775
Gillum: That’s right.
00:51:24.775 –> 00:51:27.135
Gillum: Again, and I’ve said it before, we have an amazing team.
00:51:27.535 –> 00:51:29.355
Gillum: So you’re correct.
00:51:29.355 –> 00:51:29.815
Roddy: Tremendous.
00:51:29.815 –> 00:51:32.135
Roddy: Well, that does it for this episode of The Trusted Advisor.
00:51:32.135 –> 00:51:39.495
Roddy: If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to subscribe to the RSPA YouTube channel and the Trusted Advisor podcast so you never miss an episode.
00:51:39.495 –> 00:51:48.195
Roddy: Again, I recommend you go back and watch episode number 12, after you’ve listened to this one, so you can hear Thomas and Blake from back in the day.
00:51:48.195 –> 00:51:53.615
Roddy: So before we go, thanks again to Thomas, Greeman and Blake Gillum for sharing their wisdom with us again.
00:51:53.615 –> 00:51:56.995
Roddy: Thanks also to RSPA Marketing director Chris Arnold for his production work.
00:51:57.495 –> 00:51:59.015
Roddy: Joseph McDade for our music.
00:51:59.015 –> 00:52:01.855
Roddy: And last but not least, thanks so much to you for listening.
00:52:01.855 –> 00:52:09.375
Roddy: Our goal at the RSPA is to accelerate the success of our members in the retail technology ecosystem by providing knowledge and connections.
00:52:09.375 –> 00:52:13.035
Roddy: For more information, visit our website at gorspa.org.
00:52:13.035 –> 00:52:16.715
Roddy: Thanks for listening and goodbye everybody.
