In Episode 123 of “The Trusted Advisor,” RSPA CEO Jim Roddy sits down with John Giles, the President of ISV Round 2 POS, to talk strategy and leadership. Among the topics discussed are choosing a strategy designed to be radically different from your competition, how to implement your strategy, and the importance of frequently running tests to ensure you are the disruptor and not the disrupted.
“The Trusted Advisor,” powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association (RSPA), is an award-winning content series designed specifically for retail IT VARs and software providers. Our goal is to educate you on the topics of leadership, management, hiring, sales, and other small business best practices. For more insights, visit the RSPA blog at www.GoRSPA.org.
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Full episode transcript via Apple Podcasts:
00:00:07.193 –> 00:00:14.493
Roddy: Welcome to another episode of the Trusted Advisor podcast and video series powered by the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:00:14.493 –> 00:00:20.193
Roddy: Our goal on the pod is to accelerate the success of today’s and tomorrow’s leaders in the retail IT industry.
00:00:20.193 –> 00:00:21.713
Roddy: I’m Jim Roddy, back with you again.
00:00:21.713 –> 00:00:23.653
Roddy: Thank you so much for joining us.
00:00:23.653 –> 00:00:29.393
Roddy: For the past several months, we’ve been talking with leaders about their individual leadership journeys and what they’ve learned along the way.
00:00:29.393 –> 00:00:36.713
Roddy: In this episode, we’ll talk strategy and leadership with John Giles, the president and owner of Round 2 POS, a point-of-sale ISV.
00:00:36.953 –> 00:00:49.113
Roddy: Now, John is best known in our industry as a creator of point-of-sale software, Future POS, building his ISV into a top five restaurant software, before selling the company to Shift 4 in 2017.
00:00:49.113 –> 00:00:58.733
Roddy: I suspect he’ll become even more well-known for his POS hardware Stress Lab that he’s created, that’s with folks watching on YouTube can see him in their Stress Lab right now.
00:00:58.733 –> 00:01:02.073
Roddy: We’re going to be talking about that a little later in today’s episode.
00:01:02.073 –> 00:01:11.333
Roddy: John is presented in many RSPA events over the years, including RetailNOW 2024, where he talked about thriving his Avar in the modern Retail IT industry.
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Roddy: John Giles, welcome to The Trusted Advisor.
00:01:14.613 –> 00:01:15.353
Giles: Well, thank you, Jim.
00:01:15.353 –> 00:01:16.453
Giles: It’s a pleasure to be here.
00:01:17.533 –> 00:01:24.753
Giles: I want to plug you, I got to say, when I heard that they picked you to run the RSPA, I thought they couldn’t have picked a more solid guy.
00:01:24.753 –> 00:01:30.113
Giles: I’ve known you for decades and they’re very fortunate to have you.
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Roddy: Well, very kind of you.
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Roddy: I really appreciate that.
00:01:32.033 –> 00:01:35.093
Roddy: I’m thrilled to be part of this community, part of the RSPA team.
00:01:35.093 –> 00:01:37.553
Roddy: I mean, you know it from being part of this for so many years.
00:01:37.553 –> 00:01:39.033
Roddy: It’s a really, really special group.
00:01:39.033 –> 00:01:43.653
Roddy: So, I appreciate the kind words and I’m honored to be part of it for sure.
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Roddy: So, for the folks who don’t know you, I know a lot of folks who have been in our industry for a while, they do know you, they do know Future POS.
00:01:50.473 –> 00:01:53.753
Roddy: For those who don’t, can you start by sharing your backstory?
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Roddy: The short version is you founded and grew one successful company in Butler, Pennsylvania, not in Silicon Valley, Butler’s population around 13,000, most people refer to it as an hour north of Pittsburgh.
00:02:06.413 –> 00:02:11.513
Roddy: I refer to it as about 90 minutes south of my hometown of Erie, Pennsylvania.
00:02:11.513 –> 00:02:14.653
Roddy: You and I are both proud Western Pennsylvania natives.
00:02:14.753 –> 00:02:21.473
Roddy: So your new venture is aiming to make it two for two, a successful ISV in Western PA.
00:02:21.473 –> 00:02:26.353
Roddy: Talk about your journey from young entrepreneur to where you are today.
00:02:26.353 –> 00:02:29.553
Giles: Well, it all really started back in 1994.
00:02:32.333 –> 00:02:33.573
Giles: I’ve got a guy mowing outside.
00:02:33.573 –> 00:02:34.573
Giles: Can you hear it?
00:02:34.573 –> 00:02:35.993
Roddy: No, it’s all good.
00:02:35.993 –> 00:02:36.713
Roddy: Oh, good, good, good.
00:02:36.713 –> 00:02:39.353
Giles: Because I’m like, it’s got to be driving you nuts.
00:02:39.353 –> 00:02:44.453
Giles: So back in 1994, I was working for a company called Retail Control Systems.
00:02:44.453 –> 00:02:48.233
Giles: They were about a half an hour from here in Cranberry, which you probably know where that’s at.
00:02:48.233 –> 00:02:52.693
Giles: And we were doing point of sale software for grocery stores at the time.
00:02:52.693 –> 00:02:57.073
Giles: And it was right about the time that DOS was getting old and Windows was kind of the new hot thing.
00:02:57.673 –> 00:03:03.873
Giles: And we were early adopters of Windows, programming in Windows and making use of the Win32 API.
00:03:03.873 –> 00:03:07.953
Giles: So I had a lot of experience with it and they were trying to move on.
00:03:07.953 –> 00:03:14.933
Giles: They were a squirrel reseller and squirrel had a very comprehensive product, but it was all DOS.
00:03:14.933 –> 00:03:16.073
Giles: It looked very DOS-y.
00:03:16.073 –> 00:03:18.653
Giles: And even though the hardware was sexy, the software wasn’t.
00:03:18.653 –> 00:03:24.853
Giles: So they were trying to find a Windows package for restaurants and they kept bringing me these pieces of software to vet.
00:03:25.013 –> 00:03:27.913
Giles: And they were just all half-baked junk.
00:03:27.913 –> 00:03:33.373
Giles: And I got, I almost got, it was like, I kind of got annoyed that they kept making me evaluate these.
00:03:33.373 –> 00:03:36.853
Giles: And I’m like, I could write something better in my spare time than this.
00:03:36.853 –> 00:03:42.013
Giles: So I started evenings, weekends, holidays, working on Future POS.
00:03:42.013 –> 00:03:47.173
Giles: And from 94 to 98, I worked a day job and wrote Future in the evening.
00:03:47.173 –> 00:03:53.233
Giles: And in 1998, we started selling it and got it stable, got some more successes.
00:03:54.393 –> 00:04:01.713
Giles: And literally, I was driving in bigger circles around my home in Butler, in my green Mazda, looking for resellers.
00:04:01.713 –> 00:04:06.433
Giles: And finally got the whole way to Akron, Ohio and met the Pritchard brothers.
00:04:06.433 –> 00:04:12.173
Giles: And that was kind of funny because I left the software with Steve over the weekend.
00:04:12.713 –> 00:04:17.393
Giles: And he was like, I’m printing my daughter’s picture on a receipt printer.
00:04:17.393 –> 00:04:21.373
Giles: Like, I’ve been asking micros for this for five years and they still don’t do it.
00:04:21.533 –> 00:04:26.473
Giles: And like, it does a lot of other stuff, Steve, but that works for you.
00:04:26.473 –> 00:04:29.453
Giles: And so like after that, like kind of the rest is history.
00:04:29.453 –> 00:04:39.693
Giles: We we partnered up and, you know, it’s it’s one of those things like when you’re when you’re head down in the fight, I don’t think you take the time to appreciate the people that you have around you.
00:04:39.693 –> 00:04:47.373
Giles: And I definitely, you know, since retiring and coming back, it’s given me time to appreciate what I had with the Pritchard brothers.
00:04:47.473 –> 00:04:54.653
Giles: And, you know, even though Steve and I with bloodheads on occasion, he was always very passionate about the job and the cause.
00:04:54.653 –> 00:04:57.533
Giles: And, you know, there’s a part of me that misses him, you know.
00:04:57.533 –> 00:05:02.473
Giles: But so we grew the company, like you were saying, for about 19 years.
00:05:02.473 –> 00:05:06.733
Giles: And, you know, we brought some very innovative first to the industry.
00:05:06.733 –> 00:05:09.313
Giles: We were the first to do fingerprint recognition.
00:05:09.313 –> 00:05:12.193
Giles: We were the first to use web cameras for integrated surveillance.
00:05:12.193 –> 00:05:13.713
Giles: So we we did some cool things.
00:05:13.953 –> 00:05:22.433
Giles: And, you know, I sold in 2017, and I retired for about six weeks and realized that I drank way too much.
00:05:22.433 –> 00:05:27.993
Giles: And so I went online and bought a Epson T88 receipt printer, a used one.
00:05:27.993 –> 00:05:32.893
Giles: And that was kind of like like my pacifier to satisfy that I’m actually doing something with technology.
00:05:32.893 –> 00:05:37.953
Giles: And I made it do all sorts of things that I was I never had the time to really do.
00:05:37.953 –> 00:05:41.213
Giles: But yeah, it’s it’s I think it’s in my blood at this point.
00:05:42.053 –> 00:05:42.233
Roddy: Yeah.
00:05:42.233 –> 00:05:44.793
Roddy: And I don’t want I’m going to dive into why you came back.
00:05:44.793 –> 00:05:50.373
Roddy: But first, I’m curious, because like I’ve it’s funny, I got into this industry in 1998 as well.
00:05:50.373 –> 00:05:53.393
Roddy: That’s when I started working at Business Solutions Magazine.
00:05:53.393 –> 00:05:58.033
Roddy: So I mean, you and I are, you know, quarter century now in the USM.
00:05:58.033 –> 00:05:59.433
Roddy: Yes, Business Solutions Magazine.
00:05:59.433 –> 00:06:06.973
Roddy: So I’m curious, during that startup phase, did you know it was always going to work or were there, you know, over those several years?
00:06:06.973 –> 00:06:08.813
Roddy: Are you like, I don’t know.
00:06:08.973 –> 00:06:10.753
Roddy: Like, can you talk about that?
00:06:10.753 –> 00:06:15.133
Roddy: Like, go back in that time machine and talk about, you know, before you hit it big.
00:06:15.133 –> 00:06:16.633
Giles: I can tell you the story.
00:06:16.633 –> 00:06:22.513
Giles: Yeah, it was, I mean, I didn’t have any hardware like I have here to test with or any of that stuff.
00:06:22.513 –> 00:06:27.613
Giles: So when I sold my first install, Future POS had never even been run with two computers.
00:06:27.613 –> 00:06:32.653
Giles: So I put it in a four terminal restaurant that I was in no way ready to do.
00:06:32.653 –> 00:06:35.833
Giles: And I got thrown out in the first two weeks.
00:06:35.833 –> 00:06:37.293
Giles: So that was a bit deflating.
00:06:37.553 –> 00:06:41.253
Giles: And then we did a one-terminal bar, which no networking, it worked great.
00:06:41.253 –> 00:06:44.093
Giles: And then I did a three-terminal pizza place.
00:06:44.093 –> 00:06:48.133
Giles: And it went pretty good, added some features.
00:06:48.593 –> 00:06:51.653
Giles: I’m picking up some momentum, I’m feeling really good about things.
00:06:51.653 –> 00:06:54.753
Giles: And then we did a seven-terminal nightclub.
00:06:54.753 –> 00:06:58.373
Giles: And that place was like four deep at the bar on a Friday night.
00:06:58.373 –> 00:07:01.493
Giles: And the wheels absolutely fell off.
00:07:01.493 –> 00:07:14.193
Giles: And I literally drove an hour and a half each way, like on an almost daily basis to fix issues and really re-engineer things that on paper should have worked just fine, but in practice did not.
00:07:14.193 –> 00:07:19.153
Giles: But that was probably the most trying business experience of my entire life.
00:07:19.153 –> 00:07:22.153
Giles: Going three months without making any money is a challenge.
00:07:22.153 –> 00:07:28.173
Giles: And it got so lean at one point that there was just a big snowstorm that rolled through.
00:07:28.173 –> 00:07:31.553
Giles: And I got my little green Mazda and I drove to where the nice houses were.
00:07:32.233 –> 00:07:36.173
Giles: And I literally took a snow shovel and shoveled people’s driveways and sidewalks.
00:07:36.173 –> 00:07:40.753
Giles: And I made like 75 bucks and filled my gas tank and bought a case of beer.
00:07:40.753 –> 00:07:43.693
Giles: So there were some lean days in the beginning.
00:07:43.693 –> 00:07:50.753
Giles: And I know the wife was kind of like, how long are you going to do this before you go back and get a job that pays a regular paycheck?
00:07:51.533 –> 00:07:56.173
Giles: But you know, it was year one, I made, I think, $17,000.
00:07:56.173 –> 00:08:00.053
Giles: And like year two, it was like 30 and then year three, it was 60.
00:08:00.053 –> 00:08:02.193
Giles: And then it was like, okay, we’re getting somewhere.
00:08:02.193 –> 00:08:03.733
Giles: Honest honey, this is going to work out.
00:08:03.733 –> 00:08:07.413
Giles: But yeah, there’s certainly plenty of self doubt in the early days.
00:08:07.413 –> 00:08:08.493
Giles: Like, is this going to work?
00:08:08.493 –> 00:08:09.913
Giles: Am I going to be able to make this work?
00:08:09.913 –> 00:08:15.193
Giles: But I just kind of doubled down on making it work and push through.
00:08:15.193 –> 00:08:19.813
Roddy: Yeah, the old overnight success story many, many years and many, many long nights in the making.
00:08:19.893 –> 00:08:25.533
Roddy: So I guess that even adds more intrigue to my question of why did you come back, right?
00:08:25.533 –> 00:08:28.093
Roddy: Like, why would you go, hey, let’s do this all over again?
00:08:28.093 –> 00:08:31.093
Roddy: Because honestly, you could have rested on your laurels, right?
00:08:31.293 –> 00:08:36.853
Roddy: And your history and the money that you received right from this sale of future POS.
00:08:36.853 –> 00:08:40.953
Roddy: You’re not doing this because the alternative is shoveling driveways to make ends meet.
00:08:40.953 –> 00:08:45.353
Roddy: So what is motivating you to do this?
00:08:45.353 –> 00:08:47.393
Giles: Well, the alternative now is a honeydew list.
00:08:47.573 –> 00:08:51.353
Giles: So I had to get back to it, but nah, all kidding aside.
00:08:51.353 –> 00:08:53.953
Giles: You know, I love the technology.
00:08:53.953 –> 00:08:57.473
Giles: I love being able to take technology and leverage it to help people.
00:08:57.473 –> 00:09:01.153
Giles: The fingerprint, you know, was a great example of that.
00:09:01.153 –> 00:09:04.553
Giles: And I sort of felt like I had some gas in the tank still.
00:09:04.553 –> 00:09:06.173
Giles: I wasn’t ready to retire.
00:09:06.173 –> 00:09:08.733
Giles: And so I kind of was like, well, you know what?
00:09:08.893 –> 00:09:20.493
Giles: If I could, if I had an unlimited budget and picked modern tools and had the time and money to vet all these modern tools, how would I do it in 2019?
00:09:20.493 –> 00:09:29.753
Giles: And so I started literally vetting operating systems, databases, what we were going to use for the user interface portion of it.
00:09:29.753 –> 00:09:32.213
Giles: And we really were blessed.
00:09:32.273 –> 00:09:34.973
Giles: And I used to joke with the guys that worked with me in the early days.
00:09:34.973 –> 00:09:37.733
Giles: I’m like, you have no idea how blessed we are to have no customers.
00:09:38.113 –> 00:09:39.133
Giles: Like the phone doesn’t ring.
00:09:39.133 –> 00:09:41.373
Giles: We can just get stuff done all day.
00:09:41.373 –> 00:09:45.893
Giles: So literally, we probably went through 20 flavors of Linux before we picked the one that we went with.
00:09:45.893 –> 00:09:49.473
Giles: We went through four different databases before we picked the one that we ended up running with.
00:09:49.473 –> 00:09:51.973
Giles: And so that was great.
00:09:52.313 –> 00:09:57.493
Giles: I really enjoy the technology aspect and working with the young guys.
00:09:57.493 –> 00:10:01.973
Giles: My team was at future was pretty much close in age to me.
00:10:01.973 –> 00:10:08.513
Giles: But now that those guys are pretty much end of career at this point, so I need the next generation of developers.
00:10:08.513 –> 00:10:15.573
Giles: So it’s kind of, I call them the kids because everybody here is at least 20 years younger than me, with the exception of one or two people.
00:10:15.573 –> 00:10:27.093
Giles: And so it’s been fun to kind of teach them the business and the why and wherefore, and to speak from real world experience like, hey, you know, like it seems on paper, like it should work, but you’ll find out what works.
00:10:27.393 –> 00:10:31.513
Giles: And restaurant owners when their system is down, they are not the most patient people.
00:10:33.133 –> 00:10:36.013
Giles: So, yeah, we got to vet the technology.
00:10:36.013 –> 00:10:50.653
Giles: And I don’t know if I’m going to step on your next question or anything, but it went, you know, and then COVID hit, you know, and we were fortunate that we were actually technically on paper, a payments company, which made us an essential business.
00:10:50.653 –> 00:10:52.313
Giles: So we kept working.
00:10:52.933 –> 00:10:57.413
Giles: I told the guys, I’m like, look, you know, I think maybe at the time there were 10 or 12 of us.
00:10:57.413 –> 00:11:01.273
Giles: And I’m like, look, guys, I don’t feel like you’ve congealed as a team yet.
00:11:01.413 –> 00:11:06.753
Giles: I don’t think I can send you home with your laptops and say, build a bridge and not have a bridge that comes out like that.
00:11:06.753 –> 00:11:16.413
Giles: So I said, I’m either going to lay everybody off and we’re going to try this again after COVID or we’re going to, you know, social distance, be safe and come to work every day.
00:11:16.413 –> 00:11:19.613
Giles: And to a man, they were like, yep, we’re coming to work.
00:11:19.613 –> 00:11:23.473
Giles: And it was it was funny because we were like the control in that experiment.
00:11:23.473 –> 00:11:28.713
Giles: So like the first two weeks, everybody was like wearing their masks and they would take their temperature on the way in the door.
00:11:28.873 –> 00:11:32.773
Giles: And it was like, and then after that, it was like, this isn’t that big of a deal.
00:11:32.773 –> 00:11:34.833
Giles: And then it just sort of went back to normal.
00:11:35.013 –> 00:11:37.813
Giles: And we just kept head down working.
00:11:37.813 –> 00:11:43.253
Giles: And it was kind of surreal because, you know, everybody’s doing this work from home and your pajama stuff and where’s the office?
00:11:43.253 –> 00:11:47.393
Giles: We’re up and, you know, like just like business as usual.
00:11:47.393 –> 00:11:59.833
Giles: But but, you know, I guess the bigger thing with COVID was, you know, 20 years in the restaurant business, I have a lot of friends that are restaurateurs, you know, in my local community that I still keep in touch with.
00:11:59.833 –> 00:12:07.953
Giles: And, you know, watching how they got hurt by that, you know, the shutdowns, the social distancing.
00:12:07.953 –> 00:12:16.553
Giles: I had one restaurateur friend that was building gazebos in his parking lot so that he could have customers social distance, so he could actually have customers.
00:12:16.553 –> 00:12:25.653
Giles: And I just felt like, you know, not only was that a major impediment, but then it kind of forced them into the hands of I’ll just lump them all together.
00:12:25.993 –> 00:12:33.193
Giles: The mobile ordering app products that are very predatory on the restaurant business.
00:12:33.413 –> 00:12:39.653
Giles: And it was a shame because some of them coming out of it, the newer ones were like, yeah, this is, I get tons of orders.
00:12:39.653 –> 00:12:45.573
Giles: And then, you know, six months later, they’re closed because you actually got to make money on those orders.
00:12:45.573 –> 00:12:51.033
Giles: And, you know, they weren’t priced high enough that, I don’t want to name names.
00:12:51.033 –> 00:12:52.373
Giles: I know you said that.
00:12:52.413 –> 00:12:53.773
Giles: They were eating up all their profit.
00:12:53.773 –> 00:12:56.073
Giles: And it’s like, you’re just making food to make food, you know?
00:12:56.073 –> 00:12:58.033
Giles: Like, you’re not making money.
00:12:58.033 –> 00:13:01.813
Giles: So just seeing people I cared about getting squeezed from every direction.
00:13:01.813 –> 00:13:05.573
Giles: You know, the VARs, I mean, they had their own set of challenges, you know.
00:13:05.573 –> 00:13:12.413
Giles: Obviously, it’s pretty common knowledge that the entire field of legacy point of sale products is getting bought up.
00:13:12.413 –> 00:13:26.113
Giles: You know, there’s just, you know, they’re losing their homes, not literally, but, you know, they’re a product they’ve sold for 10, 15 years now is being sunsetted and they’re not necessarily, you know, happy with the direction things are going.
00:13:26.113 –> 00:13:35.513
Giles: So it was kind of, for all of those people, it went from being just my technology, you know, itched to scratch to this can really help people.
00:13:35.513 –> 00:13:38.673
Giles: And so it kind of took on new meaning for me.
00:13:38.693 –> 00:13:44.713
Giles: And, you know, it’s what gets me out of bed in the morning to go to work, you know, I’m helping the people that I care about.
00:13:45.093 –> 00:13:53.353
Giles: I’m saving them from, you know, three year contracts where, you know, darn well, they’re getting locked in that contract because they’re going to get hammered on the credit card rates.
00:13:53.353 –> 00:13:54.813
Giles: They’re going to get lousy support.
00:13:54.813 –> 00:13:57.293
Giles: They’re going to, you know, have mediocre software.
00:13:57.293 –> 00:13:59.753
Giles: And, you know, it shouldn’t be that way.
00:13:59.753 –> 00:14:01.313
Giles: It doesn’t need to be that way.
00:14:01.533 –> 00:14:03.233
Giles: We do have a payment strategy.
00:14:03.233 –> 00:14:04.953
Giles: You do have to use our credit card processing.
00:14:04.953 –> 00:14:07.893
Giles: But beyond that, we’re reinvesting in the product.
00:14:07.893 –> 00:14:13.873
Giles: We’re actually taking that money and putting it to the purpose that it should be put to, which is to make better products for our customers.
00:14:13.873 –> 00:14:28.513
Giles: So, you know, it went like, you know, just a hobby to like, I don’t know, crusade, if you want to call it that, because, you know, I’m trying to help these people that I know could use a break and, you know, give the VARs safe harbor.
00:14:28.513 –> 00:14:37.593
Giles: So, to that end, and I don’t know if we’ve discussed this or not, I made the decision along the way to make this an employee-owned company.
00:14:37.593 –> 00:14:39.333
Giles: So, I don’t need the money.
00:14:39.333 –> 00:14:40.973
Giles: I’m not doing it for the money.
00:14:40.973 –> 00:14:49.533
Giles: I really want to give VARs a safe harbor that they can, you know, it’ll be there for the rest of their career, because nobody can buy it, you know.
00:14:49.733 –> 00:14:58.693
Giles: And I look at the likes of an NCR, you know, that are over 100 years old, and think, if we do things right, if we treat people right, why can’t we be here in 100 years?
00:14:59.073 –> 00:15:03.213
Giles: And the first piece of that, I think, is creating accountability to your customers.
00:15:03.213 –> 00:15:17.013
Giles: So, when we structure the ESOP, there will be quarterly payouts to the employees based on profitability, but those will be throttled by surveys that we send out to our VARs and to our end users.
00:15:17.013 –> 00:15:17.733
Giles: How are we doing?
00:15:17.733 –> 00:15:18.733
Giles: How are we doing on support?
00:15:18.733 –> 00:15:20.353
Giles: How are we doing on features?
00:15:20.353 –> 00:15:22.513
Giles: How are we doing on service?
00:15:22.513 –> 00:15:23.553
Giles: Where can we be better?
00:15:23.553 –> 00:15:27.853
Giles: And based on what kind of marks we get, that throttles the bonuses.
00:15:27.853 –> 00:15:35.613
Giles: So now, the customers and VARs will have the power of the purse long after I’m gone to make sure that Round 2 POS does right by them.
00:15:35.613 –> 00:15:40.913
Giles: So, I feel like this is, that’s how I want to ride off into the sunset when it’s finally time.
00:15:40.913 –> 00:15:42.913
Giles: And I feel like it’s a worthy cause.
00:15:44.133 –> 00:15:44.673
Roddy: So, thank you.
00:15:44.673 –> 00:15:47.513
Roddy: And I’ll say, I’ve never heard somebody quite articulate.
00:15:47.513 –> 00:15:51.653
Roddy: Well, in terms of you were saying, I had this personal thing that I wanted to do.
00:15:51.653 –> 00:15:53.573
Roddy: Then I saw a need in the market.
00:15:53.573 –> 00:16:01.973
Roddy: But it seems like the need accelerated because during COVID, folks need to do online ordering and everything related to that.
00:16:01.973 –> 00:16:07.373
Roddy: And then they just, whoever they could get to do that first, it was almost like, I’ll read the contract later.
00:16:07.373 –> 00:16:11.533
Roddy: And you’re saying it was disadvantageous in many situations to them.
00:16:11.933 –> 00:16:17.233
Roddy: But I will say, so even though that changed, the one thing you’ve always had is like a why not us concept.
00:16:17.233 –> 00:16:24.773
Roddy: Because I specifically remember one time I was driving from Erie down to Pittsburgh, I visited your office, I did that at least a couple of times.
00:16:24.773 –> 00:16:28.513
Roddy: I remember you and your office showing me on the screen in terms of like different market share.
00:16:28.513 –> 00:16:30.293
Roddy: And I’m like, what percent do you want?
00:16:30.293 –> 00:16:33.893
Roddy: And remember you pointed to whoever was the leader and like, we want to be bigger than them.
00:16:33.893 –> 00:16:34.613
Roddy: Why not?
00:16:34.613 –> 00:16:35.993
Roddy: Why can’t it be us?
00:16:35.993 –> 00:16:45.673
Roddy: And that kind of sounds like you still like that flame continues to burn inside of you in terms of we can build something special.
00:16:45.673 –> 00:16:48.473
Roddy: And so I guess, and can you talk about that special?
00:16:48.473 –> 00:16:50.833
Roddy: How do you see what you’re building?
00:16:50.833 –> 00:17:00.893
Roddy: Because we’re going to talk about the strategy, but talk so our audience understands like the points of differentiation that you see near term and long term with Round 2 POS.
00:17:00.893 –> 00:17:08.633
Giles: Well, I think right out of the gate, it was the fact that we went out and vetted new technology and didn’t just kind of meet to with Android or iOS.
00:17:09.513 –> 00:17:19.693
Giles: We looked at Windows for about a hot second and really just decided that even though that was my ticket into the market the first time, it wasn’t the direction to go this time.
00:17:19.693 –> 00:17:29.613
Giles: The Windows updates, taking down stores during lunch, and the fact that every new version of Windows you get, you need a computer just to run the new version of Windows.
00:17:29.613 –> 00:17:34.473
Giles: We found in the future days that the biggest resource hog on our computer was Microsoft.
00:17:35.013 –> 00:17:43.893
Giles: It wasn’t anything we were doing, and that’s why when iPad POS came out, I kind of joked, I’m like, well, you don’t need a Pentium i7 to calculate sales tax.
00:17:43.893 –> 00:17:45.773
Giles: An iPad will do that job just fine.
00:17:45.773 –> 00:17:53.653
Giles: So I get where that platform would have legs when, back in those days, it might be $2,500 for a point of sale terminal.
00:17:53.653 –> 00:17:56.253
Giles: Like now I can do it with an $800 iPad.
00:17:56.253 –> 00:18:04.213
Giles: But that was kind of an evolutionary dead end because Apple is never going to put out point of sale hardware.
00:18:04.213 –> 00:18:06.893
Giles: Android, we looked at it for a hot minute as well.
00:18:07.633 –> 00:18:15.533
Giles: We actually wrote some things in Android for our Salesforce that we have out of Butler, and had some great features.
00:18:15.713 –> 00:18:24.433
Giles: It actually used the GPS to track their day, and I called it the Salesman BS Detector, because, oh man, I can’t find any deals out here.
00:18:24.433 –> 00:18:30.933
Giles: It’s like, well, you don’t start before 10 and you’re home by 3, so that probably precludes you from finding a lot of deals too.
00:18:30.933 –> 00:18:35.613
Giles: But then just one release of Android, they came out and said, you can no longer have access to the GPS.
00:18:36.193 –> 00:18:42.913
Giles: And it was like, well, I know you guys have access to it because you tell me where I’ve been every month, but now I can’t.
00:18:42.913 –> 00:18:50.953
Giles: So I mean, it was eye-opening, thankfully, before we did anything major on Android, that this operating system is not built for me.
00:18:50.953 –> 00:18:56.393
Giles: It’s built for Google to sell telephones, and likewise with iOS.
00:18:56.393 –> 00:18:59.253
Giles: iOS is built to run iPads.
00:18:59.813 –> 00:19:01.493
Giles: It’s not meant for point of sale.
00:19:01.493 –> 00:19:11.533
Giles: If you can make it work, great, but you’ve got to worry about them moving the goalpost on you and doing something that they don’t care about you, that can cripple your business overnight.
00:19:12.753 –> 00:19:22.493
Giles: That said, those three operating systems were non-starters for us, so we looked at Linux, and Linux is nice because nobody owns it.
00:19:22.493 –> 00:19:38.053
Giles: DBN is an open-source project that there are 100 different variants of it, and if you decide that you don’t like the way this one works, or how they’re treating you, or whatever, you can just go to the next one, and it’s like changing your socks or something.
00:19:38.433 –> 00:19:39.633
Giles: That was very attractive.
00:19:39.633 –> 00:19:41.013
Giles: It’s a free operating system.
00:19:41.013 –> 00:19:45.053
Giles: That was very attractive, and it’s just bulletproof.
00:19:45.053 –> 00:19:49.693
Giles: I mean, I’m so amazed by the performance and reliability of it.
00:19:50.793 –> 00:20:04.393
Giles: The actual genesis of the Stress Lab was, over COVID, we were buying one of every point of sale terminal out there off of eBay, seeing if we could load up Linux on it, and seeing if all the drivers worked.
00:20:04.393 –> 00:20:08.013
Giles: We found a lot of them, the touchscreen driver didn’t work, things like that.
00:20:08.013 –> 00:20:15.233
Giles: But by and large, anything manufactured in the last five, I guess the eight years now, works just fine with Linux.
00:20:16.693 –> 00:20:19.993
Giles: It was like, all right, this feels like it could work.
00:20:20.373 –> 00:20:23.793
Giles: Like I said, then we started picking the database, started picking the technology.
00:20:25.113 –> 00:20:31.713
Giles: We had to decide what we wanted to do for the user interface stuff, and we ended up going with Flutter.
00:20:32.213 –> 00:20:40.233
Giles: But at every turn, I have a brilliant CTO that he’s always looking at technology and bringing in new things to try.
00:20:40.233 –> 00:20:41.993
Giles: But I’ve never just said yes.
00:20:41.993 –> 00:20:43.393
Giles: I’ve said, let’s run some tests.
00:20:43.653 –> 00:20:54.593
Giles: Let’s see if it’s as fast as you’re telling me it is, because once we’re elbows deep in this thing, is not what I want to find out, that it can get me 90% of the way, but not 100%.
00:20:54.993 –> 00:20:59.273
Giles: So we had the chance to do that with every piece of technology that we brought through the door.
00:20:59.973 –> 00:21:04.113
Giles: And the result is like, you’ve seen the Stress Lab results.
00:21:04.233 –> 00:21:09.433
Giles: I mean, it’s mind-blowing that point of sale system can ring up that many sales in a day.
00:21:09.433 –> 00:21:11.153
Giles: No crashes, no freezes.
00:21:11.153 –> 00:21:13.113
Giles: It just does what it’s supposed to do.
00:21:13.113 –> 00:21:16.813
Giles: And I would love to take all the credit for that, but a lot of that is Linux.
00:21:16.813 –> 00:21:19.253
Giles: It’s just a great underlying foundation to build on.
00:21:19.253 –> 00:21:23.173
Giles: And I always joke that we’re building the foundation for a skyscraper.
00:21:23.173 –> 00:21:26.393
Giles: You just can’t tell because it’s only above the ground, a couple of floors now.
00:21:26.553 –> 00:21:29.613
Giles: But, yeah, it’s an amazing foundation.
00:21:29.613 –> 00:21:34.013
Giles: And, yeah, I’m looking forward to see what we can do with this in the coming years.
00:21:34.013 –> 00:21:39.313
Roddy: Yeah, so it seems like Linux was a big, you know, directional point in terms of where you’re going to go.
00:21:39.313 –> 00:21:45.273
Roddy: So can you talk about the strategy that went into determining that was the path you’re going to follow?
00:21:45.273 –> 00:21:59.213
Roddy: Again, the other, you know, differentiation points in terms of, you know, the software and contracts and things of that nature, because it’s easier to follow the path that someone else has established and build something similar but better or, you know, with a different twist on it.
00:21:59.213 –> 00:22:04.693
Roddy: But, you know, I don’t have to tell you this, it’s far more challenging to cut your own path, right?
00:22:04.693 –> 00:22:13.493
Roddy: So can you share with our audience your thinking behind that and how you arrived at the decision to aim to be radically different?
00:22:13.493 –> 00:22:17.653
Giles: Well, I think you’ve probably known me long enough to know I’m not a me too kind of guy.
00:22:17.653 –> 00:22:23.693
Giles: But yeah, I really wanted to, you know, in 2019, what would be the technology I would use to do it from scratch today?
00:22:23.853 –> 00:22:25.453
Giles: If I could pick from anything.
00:22:25.453 –> 00:22:27.533
Giles: And that was kind of what led us to that end.
00:22:27.533 –> 00:22:29.613
Giles: And we really didn’t even start there.
00:22:29.613 –> 00:22:34.573
Giles: You know, we started thinking we might be an Android point of sale product.
00:22:34.573 –> 00:22:43.113
Giles: And then the advantages of Linux were just so undeniable that we very quickly changed directions and went to that.
00:22:43.113 –> 00:22:44.573
Giles: You know, there were some things that we vetted.
00:22:44.753 –> 00:22:53.993
Giles: And like I said, we used a technology called Docker, which allows us to overcome a lot of the challenges of managing fleets of computers.
00:22:53.993 –> 00:22:55.553
Giles: That’s what it’s designed for.
00:22:55.553 –> 00:23:01.173
Giles: So we can push an update to a system in the background while they’re running, ringing sales.
00:23:01.173 –> 00:23:08.313
Giles: And when everything’s downloaded, it just swaps reboots, swaps containers, and you’re back up in like 17 seconds.
00:23:08.313 –> 00:23:13.993
Giles: So we also tried to cover a lot of the sources of heartburn for VARs.
00:23:13.993 –> 00:23:21.833
Giles: You know, it’s the remote support, the ability to do updates remotely, all the things that legacy products struggle with.
00:23:21.833 –> 00:23:26.793
Giles: You know, there’s no, you know, drive out the site and stick in a thumb drive and run setup.
00:23:26.793 –> 00:23:29.393
Giles: It’s, you can push it all through our website.
00:23:29.393 –> 00:23:40.733
Giles: So, you know, I wanted to do it different, not just to do it different, but because I believe that the technology landscape had changed enough that it warranted trying to find a better way to do it.
00:23:40.733 –> 00:23:43.753
Giles: And we absolutely did.
00:23:43.753 –> 00:23:51.473
Roddy: Yeah, if I can, if you can expand on one point, it’s, you weren’t just, you didn’t go into it saying, I want to be different.
00:23:51.473 –> 00:24:03.533
Roddy: But you were open to whatever is going to work, whether it’s way different from what you did before, or whether, like you were very much, I wrote down, you never said, you didn’t say yes, you said, let’s run some tests.
00:24:03.533 –> 00:24:11.173
Roddy: And that seems to be like a healthy approach that folks shouldn’t have, hey, even though I’ve been doing this for many years, I know exactly what the answer is going to be.
00:24:11.173 –> 00:24:14.693
Roddy: It should be, I suspect what the answer is going to be, but let’s run some tests.
00:24:14.813 –> 00:24:21.673
Roddy: I guess, is that something that’s important for forming your strategy, is doing that due diligence and just following what the facts tell you?
00:24:21.673 –> 00:24:22.353
Giles: Yeah, absolutely.
00:24:22.353 –> 00:24:24.493
Giles: I mean, you have to do that.
00:24:24.493 –> 00:24:34.673
Giles: I think when you get to the point where you think you know best, that’s when you’re kind of getting a little delusional and susceptible to tripping yourself up.
00:24:34.673 –> 00:24:38.913
Giles: I’ve always believed in taking that scientific approach like, yes, I think that will be better, but let’s test it.
00:24:40.193 –> 00:24:41.513
Giles: Let’s see how it performs.
00:24:41.793 –> 00:24:46.073
Giles: Let’s see if it’s everything that it says it is on that one article that we read on the web.
00:24:46.073 –> 00:24:53.913
Giles: Because you get into that, like I said, if I get into that six months, a year of development and figure out I was wrong, well, that’s a pretty expensive mistake.
00:24:53.913 –> 00:24:58.613
Giles: But we have a policy around here, I call it fail fast.
00:24:58.613 –> 00:25:04.793
Giles: If we’re going to fail, let’s figure it out now and go a different route because I don’t want to fail slow.
00:25:04.793 –> 00:25:08.253
Roddy: Yes, because then you get dragged down and behind from stuff.
00:25:08.253 –> 00:25:21.373
Roddy: It also seems like an advantage that you had, and I’m hoping you can give advice to folks who maybe have been in business is, you didn’t have that old company or present company, I guess I should say inertia, that was pushing you one direction.
00:25:21.373 –> 00:25:25.173
Roddy: You could start from scratch on something and make that decision.
00:25:25.173 –> 00:25:28.213
Roddy: Do you have any advice for our viewers and listeners today?
00:25:28.213 –> 00:25:31.373
Roddy: Again, most of them are existing businesses, I’m sure some are startups.
00:25:31.373 –> 00:25:39.293
Roddy: But what can they do to make sure that they test and then actually make the turn and don’t let that inertia of their business keep them down the wrong path?
00:25:39.413 –> 00:25:41.913
Roddy: Any guidance for VARs and ISVs on that?
00:25:41.913 –> 00:25:49.753
Giles: I think you have to always have your ear to the ground for new technology that’s coming out and how you can use it and not just keep the blinders on.
00:25:49.753 –> 00:26:02.413
Giles: I think with Windows in particular, you get to a point where we had a 19-year code base of Win32, and it was hard to justify like, hey, let’s just throw all this out and go a completely different direction.
00:26:02.413 –> 00:26:07.893
Giles: So we were able to do some things on Android and iOS with regard to apps and things like that.
00:26:08.493 –> 00:26:12.673
Giles: But we were never really able to unhook ourselves from that legacy product.
00:26:12.673 –> 00:26:25.853
Giles: So I mean, it was kind of a blessing when we sold Future because otherwise, I’d still be a me too Windows guy trying to figure out how to be relevant in a world that’s now got iOS and Android.
00:26:26.793 –> 00:26:29.253
Giles: You can’t sell 25-year-old solutions forever.
00:26:29.693 –> 00:26:34.113
Giles: And that was a piece of why we kind of centralized around the payment strategy.
00:26:34.593 –> 00:26:36.933
Giles: I think everybody will acknowledge that’s where the money’s at.
00:26:37.473 –> 00:26:45.973
Giles: And my philosophy has always been about every 10 years, you should come out with a revolutionary new version of whatever it is you produce.
00:26:47.073 –> 00:26:53.273
Giles: You can’t use the same technology for 20 years and not have it look like it’s 20-year-old technology.
00:26:54.573 –> 00:27:02.033
Giles: So we reinvested in some things at Future, but there was no escaping the fact that we had this thing hanging over.
00:27:02.033 –> 00:27:05.493
Giles: It’s the payments gives you the revenue that you need to do that.
00:27:06.333 –> 00:27:13.133
Giles: I know a lot of the guys nowadays are payments agnostic, and I always joke that they’re living hand to mouth because they really are.
00:27:13.133 –> 00:27:21.013
Giles: You don’t have millions of dollars to go off and break off a team of guys to go do development R&D for a year or two.
00:27:21.413 –> 00:27:26.293
Giles: We literally did two to three years of R&D and no customers.
00:27:28.173 –> 00:27:32.673
Giles: By the time we went to market, I felt complete confidence in the product that we had built.
00:27:33.553 –> 00:27:37.213
Giles: But without that payments revenue, it’s kind of a non-starter.
00:27:37.213 –> 00:27:38.773
Giles: And I feel bad for some of those guys.
00:27:39.833 –> 00:27:52.353
Giles: I think in their mind, they’re being noble by saying, we’ll let you use whatever processor you want, but you’re just crippling your business and lining yourself up to be purchased by a private equity company some day and we all know how that story ends.
00:27:52.633 –> 00:28:28.693
Roddy: I guess before we take a quick commercial break, just to follow on to that is, it seems like it’s easier said than done, but when you’re building your business, you’ve always got to make sure you’re, I’ll just use the term escrowing some money to say, if I want this thing to be around for the next generation or even later on in my years, 10, 20, 30, 40 years, you’ve got to start putting something off to the side or at least know you’re squirreling away those resources so you can go and reinvent your company or I think about the book Disrupt You.
00:28:28.693 –> 00:28:31.673
Roddy: Like it’s better to disrupt yourself than have somebody else do it.
00:28:31.673 –> 00:28:34.773
Roddy: Again, easier said than done, but it kind of sounds like that’s what you’re saying.
00:28:34.773 –> 00:28:38.433
Roddy: You can’t live paycheck to paycheck or week to week.
00:28:38.433 –> 00:28:45.893
Roddy: You’ve got to put something away because you know at some point, you’re going to have to pivot your company and the momentum is going to carry in the right direction.
00:28:45.893 –> 00:28:49.433
Roddy: You got to have something separate that has to be fully funded if I’m understanding that right.
00:28:49.433 –> 00:28:51.393
Giles: Also, I mean, you’re hedging your bet.
00:28:51.393 –> 00:29:01.353
Giles: You don’t have all your eggs in one basket because you’re working on new technology and if what you have as your core product goes out of vogue in the next few years, you’ve at least got a start.
00:29:01.353 –> 00:29:02.893
Giles: You’re not completely from scratch.
00:29:03.313 –> 00:29:10.533
Giles: You dipped your toe in that pool, so you’re able to pivot more easily than if you just were caught flat-footed.
00:29:11.473 –> 00:29:11.833
Roddy: Got it.
00:29:11.833 –> 00:29:12.173
Roddy: Great.
00:29:12.173 –> 00:29:17.053
Roddy: Well, let’s pause here and let our listeners and viewers know about the Retail Solutions Providers Association.
00:29:17.053 –> 00:29:23.893
Roddy: The RSPA is North America’s largest community of retail technology, VARs, software providers, vendors, and distributors.
00:29:23.893 –> 00:29:29.293
Roddy: To accelerate your success through an RSPA membership, email membership at gorspa.org.
00:29:30.553 –> 00:29:36.413
Roddy: Also, we want to say thanks to our sponsors who support the RSPA community and make this podcast and video series possible.
00:29:36.413 –> 00:29:43.073
Roddy: Our platinum sponsors, Blue Star, our gold sponsors are Cocard, Epson, Heartland, and ScanSource.
00:29:43.073 –> 00:29:49.653
Roddy: Then finally, registration is now open for Inspire 2025, the Retail IT Channel’s premier leadership conference.
00:29:49.653 –> 00:29:54.373
Roddy: RSPA Inspire is set for January 26th through 29th in Curaçao.
00:29:54.373 –> 00:29:56.293
Roddy: I was going to joke, in Erie, Pennsylvania.
00:29:56.293 –> 00:29:58.633
Roddy: No, then we wouldn’t have any registrants.
00:29:58.633 –> 00:30:07.013
Roddy: For more information, visit gorspa.org/inspire, so you can experience networking nirvana.
00:30:07.013 –> 00:30:13.493
Roddy: I was going to say, you and I can talk Erie, we can talk, what, Corrie, we can talk Mercer, Pennsylvania, right?
00:30:13.493 –> 00:30:17.233
Roddy: We know all those different places on up and down I-79.
00:30:17.233 –> 00:30:17.773
Roddy: Meadville?
00:30:17.773 –> 00:30:18.333
Roddy: Oh yeah.
00:30:18.333 –> 00:30:22.633
Roddy: Meadville is the biggest city, legitimate city between Erie and Butler.
00:30:23.473 –> 00:30:26.853
Giles: As I say, isn’t that where Alpo is headquartered?
00:30:26.853 –> 00:30:28.433
Giles: The dog food company?
00:30:28.593 –> 00:30:29.973
Roddy: It might have been at some point.
00:30:29.973 –> 00:30:35.173
Roddy: SnapTite is the biggest producer that they have down there, the biggest manufacturer.
00:30:36.873 –> 00:30:38.733
Roddy: You and I get at all sorts of Chovey’s restaurant.
00:30:38.733 –> 00:30:43.553
Roddy: It used to be their fabulous Italian restaurant, but people are like, wait, people are right now fast forwarding through.
00:30:43.553 –> 00:30:44.453
Roddy: Are they done talking?
00:30:44.453 –> 00:30:47.393
Roddy: Are they talking about Nantiglo, Pennsylvania yet?
00:30:48.613 –> 00:30:50.713
Roddy: Let’s get back to business.
00:30:50.713 –> 00:30:55.933
Roddy: We’ve talked about the startup, the construction, the strategy, but then you’ve got to go execute.
00:30:55.933 –> 00:31:01.393
Roddy: Can you talk about the structure of your current leadership team today and how you make strategic decisions?
00:31:01.393 –> 00:31:06.433
Roddy: Right back when it was you and that printer just making decisions on your own, those are the easiest.
00:31:06.433 –> 00:31:07.133
Roddy: It’s unanimous.
00:31:07.133 –> 00:31:08.253
Roddy: It’s something that you want to do.
00:31:08.253 –> 00:31:13.273
Roddy: Talk about your leadership team today and how you map out your strategy going forward.
00:31:13.273 –> 00:31:18.753
Giles: Well, we meet weekly and we talk big picture things, little picture things.
00:31:19.453 –> 00:31:26.333
Giles: I guess if I could describe my management style, it is I am a benevolent dictator.
00:31:26.333 –> 00:31:35.813
Giles: Because I listen to what they have, I factor in what they have, but at the end of the day, it’s my decision because I’m the guy paying to start this.
00:31:36.853 –> 00:31:41.473
Giles: But I don’t ever make a decision because I said so.
00:31:41.473 –> 00:31:44.953
Giles: Again, let’s prove what we’re saying.
00:31:44.953 –> 00:31:47.273
Giles: Let’s give it a try.
00:31:48.673 –> 00:31:59.333
Giles: You can’t run by committee, but you do need to value what your people bring to the game enough to include them in the decision, I guess is the best way to put that.
00:32:00.373 –> 00:32:01.993
Giles: I always include them in everything.
00:32:02.113 –> 00:32:08.613
Giles: Now, I may have a preconceived outcome in my head, and that may be where we end up, but there are times that we haven’t.
00:32:08.613 –> 00:32:13.473
Giles: There are times that they’ve proven something to me that I’m like, all right, well, let’s do it your way.
00:32:16.913 –> 00:32:19.513
Roddy: How many folks are on the leadership team?
00:32:19.513 –> 00:32:20.373
Roddy: Four.
00:32:20.453 –> 00:32:20.933
Roddy: Okay.
00:32:20.933 –> 00:32:21.693
Roddy: Does that include you?
00:32:22.353 –> 00:32:22.773
Roddy: Yeah.
00:32:22.773 –> 00:32:27.513
Giles: I’ve got a finance guy, a operations guy and a CTO.
00:32:27.713 –> 00:32:28.753
Roddy: Okay.
00:32:28.753 –> 00:32:29.053
Roddy: Got it.
00:32:29.053 –> 00:32:31.033
Roddy: So it’s not like we’re putting everything up to a vote.
00:32:31.033 –> 00:32:34.433
Roddy: It’s basically, I got to make the call, but they serve as your council.
00:32:34.433 –> 00:32:35.493
Roddy: Is that essentially right?
00:32:35.493 –> 00:32:40.453
Roddy: You have to bring me the data and convince me and then I’ll do it based on what you say there.
00:32:40.453 –> 00:32:43.813
Roddy: That’s way different than just the non-benevolent dictator.
00:32:43.813 –> 00:32:46.193
Roddy: Like what I say goes and shut up.
00:32:46.193 –> 00:32:47.273
Roddy: So I guess talk about that.
00:32:47.373 –> 00:32:57.033
Roddy: How do you stimulate that conversation that folks will approach you and they will give you data that maybe is data you didn’t have before and it might conflict with your original thought?
00:32:57.033 –> 00:33:00.273
Roddy: I guess can you talk about creating that healthy environment?
00:33:00.273 –> 00:33:03.453
Giles: I mean, I push them to be involved in the process.
00:33:03.453 –> 00:33:05.133
Giles: So I mean, what do you think?
00:33:05.773 –> 00:33:06.833
Giles: What does your research tell you?
00:33:07.033 –> 00:33:08.553
Giles: What have you found on this subject?
00:33:08.553 –> 00:33:21.133
Giles: So yeah, I think that when you listen to them, hear them out and include them in the decision, even if it’s not the way they wanted to go, at least they feel like they were valued and a part of the process.
00:33:21.133 –> 00:33:33.133
Giles: And I think where you get low morale and things like that and lack of buy-in is when you are that dictator that’s just like, it’s my way because I said so and I’m in charge and look at my title on the door.
00:33:33.693 –> 00:33:34.893
Giles: I’ve never run things that way.
00:33:34.893 –> 00:33:43.673
Giles: I’ve always tried to surround myself with people whose opinions I value, who bring perspectives to the business that are fresh and different.
00:33:43.793 –> 00:33:48.573
Giles: Because I don’t want a team of yes men surrounding me telling me how great I am.
00:33:49.013 –> 00:33:50.813
Giles: That’s a recipe for disaster.
00:33:51.413 –> 00:33:53.673
Giles: I want people that will challenge me.
00:33:53.673 –> 00:33:54.213
Roddy: Yeah.
00:33:54.213 –> 00:34:06.953
Roddy: Along those lines, I had a colleague who I work with, she, to name another Pennsylvania town, she moved near Redding, Pennsylvania, and she worked for a company there and left because she was trying to do what you said in terms of, hey, here’s my feedback.
00:34:06.953 –> 00:34:09.533
Roddy: And he said, which one of us has an MBA?
00:34:09.533 –> 00:34:11.893
Roddy: It’s me, not you, we’re doing what I say.
00:34:11.893 –> 00:34:17.473
Roddy: And she was like at that very moment, she’s like, I got to go find something else because my opinion doesn’t mean…
00:34:17.473 –> 00:34:20.153
Giles: Why would you even employ somebody if you think so little of their opinion?
00:34:20.153 –> 00:34:23.533
Giles: You know, I want people that I value their opinion.
00:34:23.533 –> 00:34:27.473
Giles: So if you’re if you don’t have a good opinion to share, I don’t need you.
00:34:27.473 –> 00:34:28.833
Roddy: Yeah, yes.
00:34:28.833 –> 00:34:31.393
Giles: And I’m sorry that your friend had to move out to that end of the state.
00:34:31.393 –> 00:34:33.273
Giles: That’s that’s that story.
00:34:33.273 –> 00:34:35.373
Roddy: And she moved from the Pittsburgh area.
00:34:35.373 –> 00:34:38.573
Roddy: Her husband got a job at a university over there in the eastern part of the state.
00:34:38.573 –> 00:34:42.033
Roddy: So it was very, very specialized job.
00:34:42.133 –> 00:34:43.693
Roddy: And so there was less that he could do.
00:34:43.693 –> 00:34:47.033
Roddy: But yeah, she was in she was in Cranberry.
00:34:47.933 –> 00:34:48.193
Roddy: Yeah.
00:34:48.193 –> 00:34:49.173
Roddy: So she was in.
00:34:49.173 –> 00:34:49.433
Roddy: Yeah.
00:34:49.433 –> 00:34:50.793
Roddy: Very, very much in your neck of the woods.
00:34:51.333 –> 00:34:56.653
Roddy: So let’s talk about, you know, the we mentioned at the outset about the stress lab, right?
00:34:56.653 –> 00:34:59.893
Roddy: That’s one of the things you’ve done to really execute on your strategy.
00:34:59.893 –> 00:35:03.133
Roddy: And again, our viewers on YouTube, you can see that in the background.
00:35:03.133 –> 00:35:06.973
Roddy: And I know there’s a video that the RSPA is promoting.
00:35:06.973 –> 00:35:10.273
Roddy: It’s in our recent newsletters that got published.
00:35:10.593 –> 00:35:13.873
Roddy: Can you tell everyone what the stress lab is?
00:35:13.873 –> 00:35:20.933
Roddy: And then how it benefits you as a company, as a leader, how it benefits your leadership team, and how it benefits your partners?
00:35:20.933 –> 00:35:21.193
Giles: Yeah.
00:35:21.193 –> 00:35:24.613
Giles: Well, it was always planned even from the outset.
00:35:24.613 –> 00:35:27.553
Giles: I knew with future POS, we had some enormous customers.
00:35:27.553 –> 00:35:40.233
Giles: I mean, we ran Dayton Arena for a period of time, and Billy Bob’s in Dallas, Texas, which I’m sorry, Fort Worth, and it was like the better part of 100 workstations.
00:35:40.233 –> 00:35:49.993
Giles: So I knew that, yes, we’re going to do the onesie twosies, as we call them, smaller installs to get started to cut our teeth, but that’s not where we want to stay.
00:35:49.993 –> 00:35:58.213
Giles: And I would rather find the bugs and performance issues here than how I did it the last time in a nightclub getting yelled at.
00:35:58.213 –> 00:35:59.773
Giles: So yeah, we always planned on it.
00:35:59.993 –> 00:36:03.453
Giles: And the hardware just accumulated from our compatibility testing.
00:36:03.593 –> 00:36:05.993
Giles: So it was like, we had a room full of hardware.
00:36:05.993 –> 00:36:13.393
Giles: It’s like, well, why don’t we just beat the crap out of our software here, find out what deficiencies it has and what we can improve.
00:36:13.393 –> 00:36:27.033
Giles: And actually, for the interesting story, from the first time we ran it, we got around a little over 700,000 sales in a day, which already blew my mind, went back and tweaked the database performance just a little.
00:36:27.033 –> 00:36:29.473
Giles: And now we’re at like 870 some.
00:36:29.473 –> 00:36:36.173
Giles: So, you know, didn’t change any hardware or anything, just tweaked our software a little and wow, look, we got that much performance out of it.
00:36:36.173 –> 00:36:46.233
Giles: But if we were just doing it in this one terminal install, that two terminal install, we would have never gotten these thresholds and found out that there was even a need to do that or that it made sense to do that.
00:36:46.233 –> 00:36:49.473
Giles: So it’s been a great way to test the software.
00:36:49.613 –> 00:36:53.153
Giles: And what was kind of ironic is I did this for me.
00:36:53.153 –> 00:37:03.553
Giles: I mean, obviously I wanted to test my software and see how it performed, see how it measured up to what we would get out of the performance under Windows in a future system.
00:37:03.553 –> 00:37:12.053
Giles: But as soon as we ran the test, I’m like, well, this data actually, that’s a byproduct of my testing, I bet the VARs would really like this.
00:37:12.053 –> 00:37:15.553
Giles: Like, who’s got the fastest terminal out there?
00:37:15.553 –> 00:37:27.533
Giles: I can’t tell you how many times I’ll get manufacturer A’s terminal and it runs a certain way and then I get manufacturer B’s exact same specs and they do not run the same.
00:37:27.993 –> 00:37:31.253
Giles: And I’m like, I don’t know what’s different, same processor.
00:37:32.453 –> 00:37:37.653
Giles: So, without having to try and figure out why that is, we can just show you how they perform.
00:37:37.653 –> 00:37:38.853
Giles: So, it’s kind of nice.
00:37:38.853 –> 00:37:56.673
Giles: And what’s really impressive is that the hardware that we distribute this on came in pretty low on the list really because I told the people that we were working with in the hardware business from the beginning, give me your cheapest, crappiest terminal you’ve got because I’m going to make it work, you know.
00:37:56.893 –> 00:38:00.053
Giles: And they were like, well, if you want it, we still have.
00:38:00.053 –> 00:38:00.853
Giles: Yes, I do.
00:38:00.853 –> 00:38:02.473
Giles: You know, discontinued.
00:38:02.473 –> 00:38:04.293
Giles: I can sell those because they run great, you know.
00:38:04.293 –> 00:38:06.133
Giles: And no speed issues.
00:38:06.133 –> 00:38:09.593
Giles: I think the terminal we sell came in like 19th place.
00:38:09.593 –> 00:38:12.853
Giles: And I’ve never had a speed complaint on it one time ever.
00:38:12.853 –> 00:38:17.273
Giles: It’s just, you know, but it just shows what you can do with the power of Linux.
00:38:17.273 –> 00:38:19.193
Giles: I mean, I was just I was literally blown away.
00:38:19.733 –> 00:38:23.113
Giles: The terminals were ringing up 45,000 sales in a day.
00:38:23.113 –> 00:38:23.573
Roddy: Yes.
00:38:23.573 –> 00:38:23.753
Roddy: Yeah.
00:38:23.753 –> 00:38:24.533
Roddy: One terminal.
00:38:24.533 –> 00:38:25.213
Roddy: Yeah.
00:38:25.213 –> 00:38:27.193
Roddy: And so it helped you test your software.
00:38:27.193 –> 00:38:33.813
Roddy: I guess it also helps you keep your costs low because you know, you can get a certain kind of hardware and how it’s going to perform on that.
00:38:33.813 –> 00:38:47.293
Roddy: And the VARs, I guess, do they just find it interesting or do you see them as saying, wow, they can strategically, you know, choose the right kind of hardware or does it help them from a sales tool standpoint that they’re able to say, here’s the capacity on this thing?
00:38:47.293 –> 00:38:48.953
Roddy: I guess, what are some of the other side benefits?
00:38:49.273 –> 00:38:53.973
Giles: Well, I think our intention is to make this an annual thing.
00:38:53.973 –> 00:38:54.933
Giles: So we did it for 24.
00:38:54.933 –> 00:38:57.053
Giles: We’re going to do it in early 25.
00:38:57.053 –> 00:39:04.853
Giles: And I think then we’re going to ask for more information because a lot of this stuff is just old hardware you couldn’t even buy today.
00:39:04.853 –> 00:39:09.113
Giles: But with the new stuff, you know, what is your, what’s your MSRP?
00:39:09.113 –> 00:39:10.833
Giles: You know, what’s your warranty?
00:39:11.133 –> 00:39:16.953
Giles: And kind of allow them to price shop, but also, you know, performance shop at the same time, you know.
00:39:17.513 –> 00:39:23.073
Giles: I think what we’re going to try to do is come up with a value, you know, an arbitrary number that is the value of this.
00:39:23.073 –> 00:39:29.553
Giles: You know, it rang this many sales, but it only costs this much to give you like the best value for your money.
00:39:29.553 –> 00:39:37.333
Giles: But then it also kind of highlights the fact that, you know, anything on this list can run round two just fine.
00:39:37.333 –> 00:39:42.633
Giles: So you really don’t need to spend the kind of money you’re spending for Windows hardware.
00:39:43.153 –> 00:39:48.413
Giles: Come on over to our side, where we can get around just about anything.
00:39:48.413 –> 00:39:48.853
Roddy: I see.
00:39:48.853 –> 00:39:49.133
Roddy: Okay.
00:39:49.133 –> 00:39:53.493
Roddy: So it does have a sales momentum to it, because then you would have the data to show.
00:39:53.753 –> 00:39:59.533
Giles: I want to become, because you remember back in the day, they had Norton Utilities, the speed tests and things like that.
00:39:59.533 –> 00:39:59.673
Roddy: Sure.
00:39:59.673 –> 00:40:00.813
Roddy: Oh yeah.
00:40:00.813 –> 00:40:06.713
Giles: It gave you like a real number that you could say, well, my computer performs better than this other computer.
00:40:06.713 –> 00:40:09.513
Giles: But there has never been anything like that for point of sale.
00:40:09.513 –> 00:40:10.173
Giles: I thought, well, you know what?
00:40:10.173 –> 00:40:11.693
Giles: This is kind of like a public service.
00:40:12.513 –> 00:40:16.333
Giles: And the data is just a by-product of me doing what I was going to do anyways.
00:40:16.333 –> 00:40:17.553
Giles: So why not share it?
00:40:17.553 –> 00:40:21.993
Giles: So yeah, I think we’re going to do deeper and deeper dives on this.
00:40:22.413 –> 00:40:29.153
Giles: We discovered how actually the temperature of the room really affected the performance of some of these units.
00:40:29.153 –> 00:40:35.633
Giles: So we ran the first test in July just because that’s when the time worked out, but it was 90 degrees in here.
00:40:35.633 –> 00:40:43.353
Giles: We’re going to run the next one in January just because with 25 computers running, this place pretty much heats itself.
00:40:44.433 –> 00:40:49.873
Giles: So it’s a lot easier to keep it at 70 degrees in January than it is in July in Western Pennsylvania as you know.
00:40:50.853 –> 00:40:58.013
Giles: So yeah, but we want to continue doing this as a public service, just publishing this yearly as a public service to the VAR community.
00:40:58.013 –> 00:41:03.973
Giles: That’s why we were super excited to partner with you guys because there’s no better place to meet the VAR community than RSPA.
00:41:03.973 –> 00:41:06.933
Roddy: Yeah, happy to spread the word.
00:41:06.933 –> 00:41:07.713
Roddy: A couple of things on it.
00:41:07.713 –> 00:41:13.953
Roddy: So first, for folks who want to see or get access to that, you can just go on to YouTube or Google.
00:41:15.113 –> 00:41:17.293
Roddy: You can do Round 2 Stress Lab.
00:41:17.293 –> 00:41:17.653
Roddy: I mentioned.
00:41:17.653 –> 00:41:20.733
Giles: Yeah, Round 2 POS Stress Lab on YouTube will bring it right up.
00:41:20.733 –> 00:41:21.273
Giles: Yeah.
00:41:21.293 –> 00:41:25.253
Roddy: It’s a 90-second video and then I know you have a press release that has all the listings in there.
00:41:25.253 –> 00:41:26.273
Roddy: Super interesting.
00:41:26.273 –> 00:41:30.193
Roddy: This also ties in with, again, your philosophy of let’s run some tests, right?
00:41:30.193 –> 00:41:32.173
Roddy: That seems to be a backbone of everything.
00:41:32.533 –> 00:41:47.233
Roddy: I’m also curious because we had people when I was at Business Solutions magazine, and we still get people now who ask from an RSPA standpoint, like we’re neutral and people say to us, you should do product rankings and stuff like that.
00:41:47.233 –> 00:41:52.833
Roddy: At Business Solutions, I’m like, hey, let’s be honest, we can’t have our advertisers come in last place, right?
00:41:52.833 –> 00:41:53.513
Roddy: That’d be bad thing.
00:41:53.513 –> 00:41:55.313
Roddy: It’s just punching ourselves in the face.
00:41:55.313 –> 00:41:57.393
Roddy: Same thing from an RSPA standpoint, right?
00:41:57.393 –> 00:42:16.673
Roddy: Again, we want to be an all-inclusive community, but you know from producing this list and you rank them top to bottom, some people aren’t going to like where they’re ranking on that list, but you’ve never, I shouldn’t say never, but as long as I’ve known you, you haven’t been afraid to say what’s on your mind or to call it like you see it.
00:42:16.673 –> 00:42:24.733
Roddy: I guess, can you talk about that standpoint in terms of why you feel that way, how that impacts you as a business?
00:42:24.733 –> 00:42:26.413
Roddy: I’m just curious the mindset.
00:42:26.413 –> 00:42:29.053
Giles: Well, honestly, I’m in a much different position than you.
00:42:29.293 –> 00:42:34.113
Giles: I don’t have to be Switzerland with the hardware because I don’t need them all to love me.
00:42:34.113 –> 00:42:36.353
Giles: I’m going to work with the one or two that I like.
00:42:36.353 –> 00:42:41.013
Giles: But beyond that, I want to give them a chance to work with my bars.
00:42:41.013 –> 00:42:44.993
Giles: But if you come in at the bottom of the list, maybe you need to make better hardware.
00:42:46.753 –> 00:42:49.073
Giles: But then also, there’s that cost-benefit.
00:42:49.073 –> 00:42:56.653
Giles: So maybe you come in at the bottom of the list, and the one that came in last still rang out more sales than you would ever ring up in a month.
00:42:57.013 –> 00:43:03.993
Giles: So there’s not really a big disqualifier there, but it just shows you the ranking.
00:43:04.693 –> 00:43:07.373
Giles: I think the important thing will be to put a cost next to it.
00:43:07.373 –> 00:43:12.313
Giles: So that you can say, well, this guy, he’s middle of the pack, but he’s way cheaper.
00:43:12.673 –> 00:43:19.553
Giles: I think I’ll give these hardware manufacturers a way to showcase themselves and a way to position themselves.
00:43:19.553 –> 00:43:24.093
Giles: Maybe you want to have the baddest machine going and come out on top every year, have at it.
00:43:24.833 –> 00:43:32.333
Giles: I’m sure anybody that’s running a Windows product would very much value knowing who produces the most powerful terminal because you’re going to need it.
00:43:32.333 –> 00:43:38.753
Giles: But from our standpoint, we’re just ranking, we’re calling balls and strikes.
00:43:38.753 –> 00:43:43.073
Giles: So if anybody doesn’t like that it was a strike, well, step up your game.
00:43:43.073 –> 00:43:54.893
Giles: And we actually sent this out to all the hardware manufacturers that we had included in this and said, look, if you don’t like how you were shown this year, send us your latest greatest and we’ll be happy to include it next year.
00:43:56.493 –> 00:43:59.693
Giles: There’s no goal to make anybody look bad here.
00:43:59.693 –> 00:44:04.133
Giles: This is just showing you what they do in a real-world scenario.
00:44:04.133 –> 00:44:04.693
Roddy: Yes.
00:44:04.693 –> 00:44:13.893
Roddy: And I guess I will say because as you’re talking about this, I’m thinking back in the day when I was at Business Solutions, we did an annual best channel vendor survey.
00:44:13.893 –> 00:44:17.393
Roddy: The first year we called it best and worst and people totally freaked out.
00:44:17.393 –> 00:44:21.573
Roddy: And we didn’t name any names in the worst, but we shared some anecdotes to share with vendors.
00:44:21.573 –> 00:44:22.573
Roddy: It was frustrating to them.
00:44:22.573 –> 00:44:24.793
Roddy: But we did share with them behind the scenes.
00:44:24.793 –> 00:44:26.653
Roddy: Here’s why your scores were lower.
00:44:26.653 –> 00:44:28.393
Roddy: Here’s some negative feedback.
00:44:28.393 –> 00:44:32.653
Roddy: And our team was thinking we’re going to have people cancel, they’re going to be angry.
00:44:32.653 –> 00:44:39.933
Roddy: Everybody was super, I don’t want to just say mature about it, but they were appreciative in terms of people don’t tell us this face to face.
00:44:39.933 –> 00:44:41.433
Roddy: It’s nice to know that.
00:44:42.593 –> 00:44:51.693
Roddy: And again, we ranked, we had the top folks who they were, and folks wanted to rank higher, and we’d say, well, here’s the feedback of things that you can do in order to rank higher.
00:44:51.693 –> 00:44:55.873
Roddy: And again, nobody pitched a fit, it didn’t make them feel good, but they found it to be helpful.
00:44:55.873 –> 00:44:58.713
Giles: I think you’ve got to, as a business owner, be honest.
00:44:58.713 –> 00:44:59.173
Giles: You know what I mean?
00:44:59.173 –> 00:45:03.413
Giles: Like if you’re not doing a good job, you don’t want somebody to tell you you’re doing a good job.
00:45:03.413 –> 00:45:07.173
Giles: So I think that critical feedback, wherever you can get it is gold.
00:45:07.173 –> 00:45:10.333
Giles: You know, if everybody’s telling me I’m doing great, well, what am I going to change?
00:45:10.453 –> 00:45:11.193
Giles: Nothing.
00:45:11.193 –> 00:45:17.313
Giles: So if you tell me I’m doing some things wrong, or I could do some things better, well, that’s something to focus on next year.
00:45:18.253 –> 00:45:25.113
Roddy: One of the first people I ever hired, this is back when I was self-employed out of sports magazine up in Erie.
00:45:25.113 –> 00:45:29.173
Roddy: I was looking for references on the sales guy, and people are like, oh, good, fine, whatever.
00:45:29.173 –> 00:45:30.573
Roddy: The guy was a disaster.
00:45:30.573 –> 00:45:34.233
Roddy: Then later people are like, yeah, I didn’t want to hurt your feelings because it seems like you were excited.
00:45:34.233 –> 00:45:39.393
Roddy: I’m like, I would have appreciated if you hurt my feelings and told me it was a bad move.
00:45:39.933 –> 00:45:41.853
Roddy: So John, we’re almost up against time.
00:45:41.853 –> 00:45:49.233
Roddy: My last question for you is, so through all this, what are some of the top leadership lessons, strategic lessons you’ve learned?
00:45:49.233 –> 00:45:56.573
Roddy: What advice would you give to the VARS and ISVs listening today about leadership and strategy based on what you’ve lived through?
00:45:56.893 –> 00:45:59.893
Giles: I think there’s probably a couple of things that come to mind.
00:45:59.893 –> 00:46:07.553
Giles: One of the biggest lessons that I learned, I think it was from a Jack Welsh book, was about candor and just being candid with your employees.
00:46:08.713 –> 00:46:18.853
Giles: If, just to your point, if you pussy foot around about it and don’t want to hurt their feelings, I don’t want to tell them, well, a good employee will always self-correct.
00:46:18.853 –> 00:46:22.733
Giles: But if they don’t know that they’re not a good employee, they’re just going to keep being a bad employee.
00:46:23.053 –> 00:46:27.073
Giles: That was one of the things that I’ve always tried to.
00:46:27.073 –> 00:46:31.993
Giles: Sometimes you try and make the message a little less painful, but you got to get it across.
00:46:31.993 –> 00:46:36.093
Giles: Not telling them that they’re screwing up is no way to get them to stop screwing up.
00:46:36.593 –> 00:46:44.253
Giles: The other thing I would say, and this is more really for the bars, because they’re generally trying to grow a business from scratch.
00:46:44.253 –> 00:46:51.733
Giles: A lot of them over the years I’ve seen make the mistake of, I will hire somebody, but I will just keep doing what I did yesterday.
00:46:52.933 –> 00:46:58.513
Giles: What happens is the employee is not happy because he doesn’t have any input or guidance as to what he should be doing.
00:46:58.513 –> 00:47:03.833
Giles: The employer is not happy because he’s still doing the job that he hired this guy to do because he can’t let go of it.
00:47:04.613 –> 00:47:10.213
Giles: I think that you have to be willing to let people fail in order to have people succeed around you.
00:47:10.213 –> 00:47:12.493
Giles: You can’t do it all yourself.
00:47:13.293 –> 00:47:15.733
Giles: A one-man business isn’t a business, it’s one man.
00:47:16.293 –> 00:47:24.353
Giles: You have to surround yourself with a team whose opinions you respect and who you are comfortable enough to delegate to.
00:47:24.353 –> 00:47:28.293
Giles: You can’t be a control freak and do it all yourself, and grow a big successful business.
00:47:28.293 –> 00:47:32.533
Giles: You’ve got to sometimes hire the wrong people, sometimes figure that out the hard way.
00:47:32.673 –> 00:47:40.973
Giles: But if you don’t give them a chance to fail, you’ve just got a guy in the payroll that’s not really doing anything that’s worth having them around for.
00:47:40.973 –> 00:47:52.133
Roddy: Yeah, and a five-person business that runs like a one-person business, that’s going to fail as well because your payroll expenses are too high, and you’re not going to be able to.
00:47:52.133 –> 00:47:55.213
Roddy: I guess, again, I keep going back to the let’s run some tests.
00:47:55.213 –> 00:48:04.433
Roddy: That’s what it seems like when you hire an employee, you’re training and be teaching them, and then you’re going to say, let’s run some tests and see if you make mistakes or if you do it as well as me, you’re better than me.
00:48:04.833 –> 00:48:06.213
Roddy: Am I following you on that one?
00:48:06.573 –> 00:48:06.813
Giles: Yeah.
00:48:07.053 –> 00:48:10.073
Giles: That fail fasting, that applies to employees too.
00:48:10.073 –> 00:48:12.893
Giles: Every new hire, I’m always, hey, how’s he doing?
00:48:12.893 –> 00:48:13.593
Giles: How’s he making out?
00:48:13.593 –> 00:48:14.413
Giles: Is he picking it up?
00:48:14.413 –> 00:48:16.133
Giles: Is he pulling his share of the weight?
00:48:16.133 –> 00:48:17.573
Giles: Showing up to work on time.
00:48:17.573 –> 00:48:27.553
Giles: Everything that you would want to see happening with a new employee, and if I don’t see those things, well, then you’re on my naughty list, and you’re going to get off my naughty list or it’s going to end one way.
00:48:27.933 –> 00:48:28.573
Roddy: Yeah.
00:48:28.573 –> 00:48:33.253
Roddy: Like you said, from a candor standpoint, I’ve never found somebody who said, please beat around the bush.
00:48:33.253 –> 00:48:35.873
Roddy: I don’t want to hear direct feedback.
00:48:35.873 –> 00:48:39.033
Roddy: People will appreciate it more than not hearing it for sure.
00:48:39.033 –> 00:48:48.853
Giles: It’s funny because to your point, when we first started, it was COVID and I had a lot of Gen Z’s working for me, and there’s definitely a difference.
00:48:49.413 –> 00:48:50.793
Giles: They’re a different mindset.
00:48:53.493 –> 00:48:57.413
Roddy: They’re different experiences than you and I had growing up.
00:48:57.573 –> 00:49:05.753
Giles: I tried to go out of my way to not micromanage or make them feel like I was up in their business or disapproving.
00:49:06.673 –> 00:49:17.273
Giles: What we found out was when we did the employee reviews, they actually wanted to be course corrected and things like that, and they were actually upset that they weren’t getting enough feedback.
00:49:17.673 –> 00:49:27.233
Giles: So it was funny because I felt like I was doing these youngsters a favor by not writing them like I would somebody my age, and it turned out that no, that was the exact opposite.
00:49:27.233 –> 00:49:35.593
Giles: They wanted to know what they were doing good and what they could do better, and I wasn’t initially providing that feedback because I thought it would offend them and drive them away.
00:49:35.593 –> 00:49:40.853
Giles: So learning lesson for me, it doesn’t matter what generation you’re from, you want to know if you’re doing a good job.
00:49:40.853 –> 00:49:41.313
Roddy: That’s right.
00:49:41.313 –> 00:49:45.853
Roddy: Yeah, good employees want that feedback no matter if they’re 18 or 88.
00:49:47.693 –> 00:49:47.973
Roddy: Excellent.
00:49:47.973 –> 00:49:48.593
Roddy: Well, great info.
00:49:48.593 –> 00:49:51.073
Roddy: Well, that does it for this episode of The Trusted Advisor.
00:49:51.073 –> 00:49:57.973
Roddy: If you enjoyed our discussion, be sure to subscribe to the RSPA YouTube channel and The Trusted Advisor podcast so you never miss an episode.
00:49:57.973 –> 00:50:02.193
Roddy: Before we go, big thanks again to John Giles for sharing his wisdom with us today.
00:50:02.193 –> 00:50:10.293
Roddy: Thanks also to RSPA Marketing Director, Chris Arnold for his production work, Joseph McDade for our music, and last but not least, thanks so much to you for listening.
00:50:10.293 –> 00:50:17.293
Roddy: Our goal at the RSPA is to accelerate the success of our members in the retail technology ecosystem by providing knowledge and connections.
00:50:17.293 –> 00:50:21.353
Roddy: For more information, please visit our website at gorspa.org.
00:50:21.353 –> 00:50:24.633
Roddy: Thanks for listening and goodbye everybody.
